Posted on 08/30/2010 6:26:22 PM PDT by markomalley
But I have a Friend Who because of this "once saved always saved" He is an ex-Catholic who massages women all the way to bed in their new indy churches. Why because "once saved always saved". This is what he told me.He is married or was. Your not accountable anymore. God will make me perfect. What a joke? Pathetic. Then if you point it out to someone =Well he was never saved! What! He believes because of this Tomfoolery to begin with from the get-go.
I always think of this Crazy extreme. Meaning this can lead to this example. Not that It has any thing to do with you. My real faithful Indy friends believe this in the context of the stewardship of his grace. But when I come across this other type and they truly believe it. Thats Lunacy.
Sir. 35:19; Luke 23:41; John 3:19-21, Rom. 8:13, 2 Tim 4:14, Titus 3:8,14, Rev. 22:12 - these verses also teach us that we all will be judged by God according to our deeds. There is no distinction between the “saved” and the “unsaved.”
1) You have done a fine job of Cherry Picking verses, using them out of context to try to build up your position that Works will get you to Heaven, will get you Salvation. This is not so.
Yes, indeed, we will be judged by what we do, our works. BUT, without the FAITH in Jesus, it matters not what your deeds were, you’ll be “Departing from Him”.
“21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
All have fallen short of the glory of God, there is none righteous, not one.
No one comes to the father but through Jesus, Faith in Him as the risen Savior.
Salvation comes through faith, not works, lest any man boast.
*Sirch3:18-19 These verses speak more to doing Evil works and the rewards for those. In no way do they address, speak to, or suggest that while evil works will bring their reward, that good works will bring Salvation.
*Luke 23:41 Good Cherry Picking. This is the story where Jesus and the two thieves are on the cross, Jesus is being ridiculed by one thief (Save us if you are the Savior!!) But the other thief defends him.
In Luke 23:42, What Happens? Glory to God, the 2nd thief proclaims his faith in Jesus, asks him to remember him. FAITH is what happens there. Notice here, the thief is crucified, doomed to die, no time, nor ability nor opportunity for ‘good works’. But he IS able to show FAITH.
Luke 23:43 Jesus, because of the incredible volume of good works of the 2nd thief, wait, no that is not right, let me try again. Jesus, because of the FAITH demonstrated by the 2nd thief declares that he will join Jesus in Paradise. How is this possible? Where are the works?
*John 3:19-21 These are some sensible verses - Evil deeds have their rewards . And, not surprisingly, ‘good deeds’ are performed ‘wrought in God’. But there is no mention of Salvation being the outcome of good works.
* Romans 8:13 Read this as a group of verses for context (8:10-15) Paul was saying not that good works give Salvation. The quote “But if ye, through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” Allow me to paraphrase: “If you, strengthened by Faith in the Spirit, do NOT do as the body would have you do, ye shall live.” It seems that FAITH is the key.
*2 Timothy 4:14 You have been strong in showing how God will punish those with ‘bad works’, but have not shown at all that good works will save.
*Titus 3:8 “ 8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.” Did you NOTICE? Those who believe! Those that have FAITH (first) should THEN be careful to maintain their good works. FAITH FIRST.
*Rev22:12 Jesus says: “
I do believe once saved always saved. BUT, having said that IF you are saved, then past sinful behaviors will be repugnant to you. If they are not, it is time for some self-checking. Salvation is NOT a blank check to run amok. No, being saved is the time to walk with Jesus, do as He would. And I doubt massaging women into bed complies with that, so, I would question that salvation.
I agree. I have friends and brothers in Christ who would also agree. You definitely have to have something to show your are a Christian. Like living as one.
Anyway, one Greek word meant “works” in the meaning that the power was from God. (Such as in “judge a man by his works”) Not the MAN’s work, but the visible expression of GOD working through the man.
The other Greek word meant “work” in the sense of the power coming from the MAN. So these “works” (the man's work) doesn't help any with regard to salvation.
The third Greek word for “work” was mentioned once, and was some mundane reference.
Anyway - that sure cleared up a LOT of the questions I had about the whole faith and works thing. Of course - that begs the question. Am I (are we?) always open to what God is wanting us to do, so that we are performing HIS mighty works?
The church I go to now puts a lot of emphasis on “Okay, you're saved. But are you living life Exceedingly Abundantly!? (Not in the “blessed by riches” that some folks go by). But in the sense of are you stepping out on the fringes of your faith? Putting yourself into God's hands and letting him work BIG things through you. Are you letting God use you to make a Deeper Impact in the community. And seeing the work of God around you, you will be blessed.
Are you saying the more people study the Bible, the more they think it's full of mythology?
That's how most Catholics regard the Bible anyway.
If I am not mistaken, that web site teaches both young earth creationism and geocentrism, which means most Catholic FReepers have no use for it.
Has the guy behind it been excommunicated for "fundamentalism" yet?
That is the attitude of atheists and naturalists to all claims of supernatural phenomena.
You reject the Apocrypha not because its miracles are "silly," but because it isn't in the Protestant bible.
Mr Z - Not sure on that one. Thanks for your interest. If he does believe in young earth I do not know. I will check it out though.
***You reject the Apocrypha not because its miracles are “silly,” but because it isn’t in the Protestant bible.***
Since I have read them I had to get them somewhere. I have a modern print 1611 KJV that has them, a Geneva Bible that has them, and two catholic bibles that have them, and I read them every few years to refresh myself as to why they are irrelivant.
But then I also read “The Lost Books of the Bible”.
AND, were the Spartans really one of the lost tribes of Abraham as Maccabees says they were?
The Preacher Girl as you put it sounds like Gene Scott’s Widow.
They're irrelevant to you because they're not in the "official" Protestant bible. Supernatural phenomena are supernatural phenomena. It's usually Catholics I argue with about that principal, since they believe the "real presence" is the only thing in their bible that is literally true.
I have no idea but I doubt it. But it's no sillier to the "scientific" mind than you and I believing the world was created in six days 5770 years ago or that Canaanites are Hamites (academia considers them Semites).
But the Apocrypha isn't in my Bible either. The only thing is I know they're not there because they weren't canonized by the Men of the Great Assembly (they had already closed the canon, which is why the story of Chanukkah didn't make it in). My own personal opinion of the outrageousness of the contents has nothing to do with it.
Preacher GAL - “girl” sounds demeaning, but I did have to double-check that I didn’t write that! :) And yes - you’re right of course. She sure seems pretty smart, and passionate about it. Thanks for the reminder on the name!
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