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Relationships Market After 50 Years of The Pill
The Australian ^ | 9/25/10 | Cardinal George Pell

Posted on 09/29/2010 8:33:41 AM PDT by marshmallow

FAR from bringing equality, contraception has redistributed power away from women, says George Pell.

THIS year is the 50th anniversary of the contraceptive pill, a development that has changed Western life enormously, in some ways most people do not understand.

While majority opinion regards the pill as a significant social benefit for giving women greater control of their fertility, the consensus is not overwhelming, especially among women.

A May CBS News poll of 591 adult Americans found that 59 per cent of men and 54 per cent of women believed the pill had made women's lives better.

In an article in the ecumenical journal First Things that month, North American economist Timothy Reichert approached the topic with "straight-forward microeconomic reasoning", concluding that contraception had triggered a redistribution of wealth and power from women and children to men.

Applying the insights of the market, he points out that relative scarcity or abundance affects behaviour in important ways and that significant technological changes, such as the pill, have broad social effects. His basic thesis is that the pill has divided what was once a single mating market into two markets.

This first is a market for sexual relationships, which most young men and women frequent early in their adult life. The second is a market for marital or partnership relationships, where most participate later on.

Because the pill means that participation in the sex market need not result in pregnancy, the costs of having premarital and extra-marital sex have been lowered.

The old single mating market was populated by roughly the same number of men and women, but this is no longer the case in the two new markets.

Because most women want to have children, they enter the marriage market earlier than men, often by their early 30s. Men are under no.........

(Excerpt) Read more at theaustralian.com.au ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Science; Theology
KEYWORDS: abortion; birthcontrol; contraception; moralabsolutes
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1 posted on 09/29/2010 8:33:42 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

I tell my girls, you hold the power as long as you cross your legs.

Once you give it up, they have power over you.


2 posted on 09/29/2010 8:37:03 AM PDT by netmilsmom ("Happiness is a choice"-Fr. Ben Ludtke. Pray for healing of his Brain Tumor, pls.)
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To: marshmallow

Went on at 16 because of so much pain & bleeding every month. Tried to have a baby 10 years later and found out that the reason I has issues was PCOS. The pill did not solve my problems, it only masked them. I went back on the pill after I had my son. After three days I felt like crap and threw them away. My milk production plummeted and never returned to what I had been producing. I will never use the pill again.


3 posted on 09/29/2010 8:40:43 AM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: marshmallow
Simply put it made heterosexual intercourse recreational instead of procreational, equalizing it with the other kinds of activity that are also non-procreational - masturbation and homosexuality.
4 posted on 09/29/2010 8:41:17 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: netmilsmom

I don’t necessarily disagree with you in principle, but I would be hesitant to explain sex to a girl as a gendered power struggle. It seems to me that instilling such a view could have detrimental effects on their marital sex lives (in which sex should not be a power-play).

SnakeDoc


5 posted on 09/29/2010 8:43:19 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow." -- Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: marshmallow

If women don’t have the power, you haven’t been paying attention. Most married men I know are completely whipped.

If The Pill made contraception convenient, then why are there so many women with multiple baby daddies?


6 posted on 09/29/2010 8:47:05 AM PDT by Judges Gone Wild (Who are these uncircumcised to oppose the armies of the Living God?)
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To: netmilsmom

You really sure that’s the message you want your kids going off into life with?

You don’t have a very high opinion of mankind, do you?


7 posted on 09/29/2010 8:50:06 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: wideawake
Yeah, because infertile couples are just like a couple of masturbating homosexuals... </sarc>

Legalized abortion did it, not The Pill. The major threat of STDs makes The Pill far more useful in a family-planning situation than for mere recreation.

8 posted on 09/29/2010 8:51:38 AM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: marshmallow

While approached as an economic analysis of sorts, I notice they make no mention of the actual economic aspects of relationships or divorce.


9 posted on 09/29/2010 8:51:58 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: netmilsmom

That’s so sad.

Once they start looking at it as a power issue, they’ve lost anyway.


10 posted on 09/29/2010 8:55:55 AM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring

“...The Pill far more useful in a family-planning situation ....” Concur. It’s a tool to make your life more orderly, not a license to go haywire. There are inherent risks, so you choose to take them or not. P.S. People misuse hammers, too....


11 posted on 09/29/2010 8:56:41 AM PDT by Silentgypsy
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To: marshmallow
Yet another reason to remain single, celibate, and sane.

/johnny

12 posted on 09/29/2010 8:56:56 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Gondring; wideawake
Yeah, because infertile couples are just like a couple of masturbating homosexuals...

That's a common straw man, and it wasn't what wideawake was saying at all. Even with infertile couples, sexual intercourse still is potentially procreative, because infertility is sometimes overcome.

13 posted on 09/29/2010 8:59:26 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Gondring

“looking at it as a power issue.” Concur on that one, too. Grandsons #1 and 2 visited us for a couple of weeks one summer, and #1 asked my husband, “But who has the power?” We looked at him, dumbfounded, and my husband launched a crash course on negotiation, relationships, respect, mate selection,etc. Not sure how much effect it had, because he left with a hand book on negotiations, a new stereo that he bought for a smokin’ low price, and the opinion that we “look at the cup as half full, not half empty.” Go figure.


14 posted on 09/29/2010 9:02:56 AM PDT by Silentgypsy
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To: Gondring
Yeah, because infertile couples are just like a couple of masturbating homosexuals

It is, quite obviously, a matter of intentionality.

The infertile couple does not set out intending to be unable to conceive.

Not so the pilltaker, pride marcher, or adult DVD collector.

15 posted on 09/29/2010 9:04:18 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: marshmallow; 185JHP; 230FMJ; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; Amos the Prophet; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

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16 posted on 09/29/2010 9:06:47 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: JRandomFreeper

“Yet another reason to remain single, celibate, and sane.” Yay! Grandson #1 is still single. I bet when you two select mates, those relationships will be assessed carefully, extensively and, hopefully,will LAST! Good for you guys! :)


17 posted on 09/29/2010 9:07:38 AM PDT by Silentgypsy
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To: Silentgypsy

You just made my day with that post. I have received some bad news lately and the laugh I just got was well needed. Thanks to you and your husband!


18 posted on 09/29/2010 9:10:25 AM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Pyro7480
Even with infertile couples, sexual intercourse still is potentially procreative, because infertility is sometimes overcome.

Yes, a pink unicorn might gallop by and miraculously put a fetus into a woman's non-existent uterus. But I think that is a lot less likely than a fertile woman getting pregnant despite use of The Pill.

When I last checked, I understood that even the Roman Catholic Church recognized that sex without procreation is still a valid use of the equipment, as it can bring couples together emotionally.

But perhaps I misunderstood.

19 posted on 09/29/2010 9:10:59 AM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring
Legalized abortion did it, not The Pill.

The two are connected. More than most people know.

Back in the swingin' '60s, the Pill was in fact marketed as an antidote to abortion. It still is, to some extent. Eliminate unwanted pregnancies before they begin, goes the theory, and you will remove the need for abortion.

No, said the Pope Paul VI in a document named Humanae Vitae published in 1968. The Pill will lead inexorably to the cheapening of the procreational act which in turn will lead to women being viewed as mere sex objects. This will result in a greater demand for abortion, not less.

So who was right?

Well, five years after Humanae Vitae, we got Roe v Wade and it has been with us ever since. Abortion is now proclaimed to be a human right in some quarters and it's not hard to see a time when the denial of abortion will be viewed as a violation of "human rights" and a crime. It's clear that the Pill has not eliminated the demand for abortion one iota and instead the killing goes on unabated.

We will continue to have abortion on demand in this country as long as sexual relations are deemed to be legitimate recreational activity. That in turn is down to the Pill. Roe v Wade will not be overturned until there is a sea-change in personal morality.

20 posted on 09/29/2010 9:17:26 AM PDT by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: wideawake
Not so the pilltaker, pride marcher, or adult DVD collector.

...rhythm method users, etc...

Yes, I get it, I get it...sex shouldn't be fun! But sticking your head in the sand won't change the fact that The Pill simply removed procreation from sex, not changed it to recreational.

Face it, sex was recreational long before The Pill, even in times when you might have been pushing the idea of female hysteria.

21 posted on 09/29/2010 9:19:11 AM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: marshmallow
"...sexual relations are deemed to be legitimate recreational activity."

When it becomes a legitimate organized recreational activity, will there be leagues and team shirts?

22 posted on 09/29/2010 9:19:51 AM PDT by BlueLancer (I'm getting a fine tootsy-frootsying right here...)
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To: marshmallow

59% of the men...

Well sure.


23 posted on 09/29/2010 9:20:31 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: goodwithagun

sadly, that is drs standard approach with womens’ health issues, they just want to mask the symptoms and send you on your way.

I had a similar experience, and it’s extremely frustrating.


24 posted on 09/29/2010 9:21:41 AM PDT by mockingbyrd (Remember in November.)
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To: Gondring
...rhythm method users, etc...

Your arguments seem to be based on either straw men like this or . . .

sex shouldn't be fun

. . . misdirection like this or . . .

when you might have been pushing

. . . ad hominem like this.

The reality is that the pill removed the meaning and responsibility of heterosexual intercourse and made it into a purely recreational activity.

Marriage and the family, and therefore all of traditional civil society, are based on sexual intercourse being an essential part of life and not a tangential, pleasant diversion.

25 posted on 09/29/2010 9:33:45 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Judges Gone Wild
If women don’t have the power, you haven’t been paying attention. Most married men I know are completely whipped.

Men rule the world.
Women rule the men.

26 posted on 09/29/2010 9:37:59 AM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: marshmallow

This was clear ages ago. The Cardinal does a great job of clarifying what has been reality for a long time.


27 posted on 09/29/2010 9:41:19 AM PDT by TAdams8591 (Christine O'Donnell WILL WIN in November. Rove can eat his own words then.)
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To: Gondring

That’s what I always thought. Not as true today, though.


28 posted on 09/29/2010 9:42:15 AM PDT by TAdams8591 (Christine O'Donnell WILL WIN in November. Rove can eat his own words then.)
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To: netmilsmom; Pessimist

People don’t seem to realize that you merely gave the timeless message of teen relationships between the sexes.

That is why I believe that when they invent a simple, effective pill for males, that girls will convert quickly to abstinence, to regain their power within their relations with the boys.


29 posted on 09/29/2010 9:46:13 AM PDT by ansel12 ([fear of Islam.] Once you are paralyzed by fear of Mohammedanism...you have lost the battle.)
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To: ansel12; Pessimist; Gondring; SnakeDoctor

Thank you Ansel12!

The point is, my girls hold the power of THEIR lives as long as they do not have premarital sex. Anyone who believes that premarital sex does improve the chances of babies and STDs, is probably deluded.

Should a girl open her legs and get one of the above, she loses her power over her own life. She must treat her STD, she must tell him and anyone that either had sex with, plus doctors, plus future partners or with a baby, the control goes to him. Will he marry her, will he support the baby, will he live with her decision to stay pregnant and adopt out the baby? Will he demand to keep that child when she wants to give him/her to a good home?

AND if she keeps that baby, he will be in her life for 18 years.

Seriously, does anyone think that a celibate girl is NOT powerful? Having the power to choose one’s own destiny is a VERY conservative principal and I’m surprised that anyone would have a problem with it.


30 posted on 09/29/2010 10:44:02 AM PDT by netmilsmom ("Happiness is a choice"-Fr. Ben Ludtke. Pray for healing of his Brain Tumor, pls.)
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To: netmilsmom

Like I said, I don’t disagree with you in principle ... I’m just not sure that’s how I would’ve phrased it. There is nothing wrong with controlling your own destiny. There are numerous and indisputable moral and logical problems with premarital sex.

But, it seems to me the conflating of sex and power could cause unique problems later on. Sex in marriage should not be about power. A girl that has been taught throughout her life that she gains power over men by keeping her legs closed may have trouble reversing that particular thought process once she is married. “Keep your legs closed to be powerful” does not seem to me to be a mindset that will lead to a particularly healthy marital relationship.

SnakeDoc


31 posted on 09/29/2010 10:54:57 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow." -- Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Ah, but you don’t consider their Christian upbringing in it and the example I show with their own father. Dad always has the last word, as head of the household. They see how marriage works. In marriage, power is not held by one spouse or another, and works best when both work together.

They see what makes a good marriage. I was given the same advice by my parents, remained a virgin until 34 with men throwing themselves at me because of my reputation, and was choosy enough to wait for a wonderful husband (and great kids). He knows he got something special from me and appreciates it.

More conservatives should be telling their daughters that BC doesn’t cut it and the risks associated with premarital sex.


32 posted on 09/29/2010 11:06:39 AM PDT by netmilsmom ("Happiness is a choice"-Fr. Ben Ludtke. Pray for healing of his Brain Tumor, pls.)
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To: netmilsmom

Fair enough. A good example can overcome a great many things ... though a good example of sexuality-in-marriage is a bit difficult to display with discretion.

I agree that conservatives should be telling their daughters about the risks of pre-marital sex and that BC is insufficient. I just disagree with the “you gain power when your legs are closed” message specifically, as I am not sure it paints a particularly healthy picture of Christian sexuality within marriage.

To each his own on how the message is phrased.

SnakeDoc


33 posted on 09/29/2010 11:20:31 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow." -- Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: marshmallow
The analysis seems rather silly to me, sort of a junk-sciency begin-with-the-conclusion (contraception is bad) and develop logic to support that conclusion. But I figured though Cardinal George Pell, the Catholic Archbishop of Sydney, who wrote this article is no-doubt sincere, what do the boys from the seminary really know about dating between men and women, marriage, or markets? Perhaps he misunderstood.

So I read Reichert's original article, and Cardinal Pell did do it justice; however the journal First Things is a journal to advance religious ideas, and Reichert is trying to advance a viewpoint rather than being making an actual well-developed economic analysis. For example Reichert asserts (does not provide evidence for) that contraception means that women face "fierce" competition for men once they enter the "marriage market," and "this means that the 'deals they cut' become worse for them and better for men."

Simple logic tells us that every man who wants to get married still has to find a women, so men and women have about the same power from that standpoint.

In reality social and legal changes over the last few decades not caused by contraception have led to much greater power for women in relationships and marriage; for example GOMEZ V. PEREZ, 409 U. S. 535 (1973) reversed ancient common law, the wisdom of many generations, that if a woman wanted a man to support her child, she had to get married; the Court did so on 14th Amendment "equal protection" grounds.

Courts have become much more "woman friendly" in other ways also. Today a married woman with children can have an affair, divorce her husband, kick him out of the house, and her cuckolded husband must make large child support payments to support her and her boyfriend, who is now living with his children. This is common

And the cheated-on husband, when he tries to re-enter the marriage "market" is going to do so in an impoverished condition.

GOMEZ V. PEREZ is just one element in the social/legal changes that have made marriage more risky for men. The rise in the age of marriage that Reichert attributes to "the pill" could be attributed to these heightened risks and costs to men, and on the other side to the ability of women to access the benefits, such as child support, plus money and goods from welfare programs, that once could only have been accessed by her in a marriage.

If the Catholic Church wanted to help restore marriage using economic incentives it would advocate the restoration of common law in terms of child support, and advocate the end of government welfare programs, and only support private charity for "the deserving poor," ie widows and orphans. But the liberation theology influenced Church is supporting programs that are opposite of what would be required to restore economic incentives to marriage.

34 posted on 09/29/2010 11:41:04 AM PDT by Inappropriate Laughter (Obama: Another illegal alien living in public housing)
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To: SnakeDoctor

There is more conversation in our house than “one liners” just as there was in my home growing up.

My mother was very open about sex to my sisters from their engagements on, even relating her own sex life with my dad (I remember hearing them talk as I am much younger than my siblings). There is nothing I will not discuss with my daughters. It may be uncomfortable from time to time (as with their questions of “how” lesbians have sex) but I put on a good front, speak with confidence and cringe later! Because that’s my job.


35 posted on 09/29/2010 11:48:24 AM PDT by netmilsmom ("Happiness is a choice"-Fr. Ben Ludtke. Pray for healing of his Brain Tumor, pls.)
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To: marshmallow
"This revolution was reinforced by the music of the 1960s, for example Mick Jagger's Rolling Stones, or the Beatles."

It would seem the second British invasion caused more damage than the first.

36 posted on 09/29/2010 1:44:23 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Christine O'Donnell WILL WIN in November. Rove can eat his own words then.)
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To: netmilsmom

Excellent comments on this thread netmilsmom!


37 posted on 09/29/2010 1:46:03 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Christine O'Donnell WILL WIN in November. Rove can eat his own words then.)
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To: TAdams8591

Thank you!


38 posted on 09/29/2010 2:10:28 PM PDT by netmilsmom ("Happiness is a choice"-Fr. Ben Ludtke. Pray for healing of his Brain Tumor, pls.)
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To: ansel12
"That is why I believe that when they invent a simple, effective pill for males, that girls will convert quickly to abstinence, to regain their power within their relations with the boys."

That is shear genius ansel12. You may be wonderfully and joyfully right. I love that thought.
39 posted on 09/29/2010 2:25:31 PM PDT by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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To: ansel12

Lol! I doubt many young girls will trust a boy to take a pill daily.


40 posted on 09/29/2010 4:54:55 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: Amberdawn

I think you have it backwards, the pill has proven to be useless in female hands, but make one for men, and illegitimacy will instantly disappear.

Females will want to regain sexual control, so they will deal with the only tool left to them, get a ring before giving up sex.


41 posted on 09/29/2010 5:00:37 PM PDT by ansel12 ([fear of Islam.] Once you are paralyzed by fear of Mohammedanism...you have lost the battle.)
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To: netmilsmom
Having the power to choose one’s own destiny is a VERY conservative principal [...]

Good to see, I assume, you support legalization of prostitution. After all, if we're going to play power games, it's not conservative to use the power of government to prevent women from choosing their own destinies, setting prices in the market, and taking advantage of the inflated value, as well as to prevent men from exercising the freedom to make their own choices and purchases.

Otherwise, of course, you have the government artificially propping up a monopoly, interfering with personal freedom and the market...things abhorrent to any conservative!

42 posted on 09/29/2010 5:42:59 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring

>>Good to see, I assume, you support legalization of prostitution.<<

The legalization of prostitution has NOTHING to do with the way I instruct my daughters to remain in control of their own destinies by not having premarital sex.

Nice straw man though.


43 posted on 09/29/2010 6:34:51 PM PDT by netmilsmom ("Happiness is a choice"-Fr. Ben Ludtke. Pray for healing of his Brain Tumor, pls.)
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To: Gondring

You have me baffled with this sex talk and young girls, you aren’t aware that an easy girl is a weak girl, that she has relinquished much of her feminine power with males?

First date girls are in a weaker place than modest girls, in the control of their own status and place.

Even those of us that always liked to find weak girls understood that, it is why we look for a different type when we get serious.


44 posted on 09/29/2010 6:47:26 PM PDT by ansel12 ([fear of Islam.] Once you are paralyzed by fear of Mohammedanism...you have lost the battle.)
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To: ansel12; Amberdawn; klossg
That is why I believe that when they invent a simple, effective pill for males, that girls will convert quickly to abstinence, to regain their power within their relations with the boys.

Yeah, the invention of the vasectomy sure stopped girls from being fools for guys who have silver tongues, flashy clothes, and fast cars--and give them attention, right?

Sorry, but a male pill won't convert girls to abstinence any more than the teenage discovery of fellatio has swept things away!

45 posted on 09/29/2010 7:15:29 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: wagglebee

Something similar was in First Things a few months back.


46 posted on 09/29/2010 7:16:55 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: wideawake
Rhythm method is not a straw man. It is fitting right in with your words:

The infertile couple does not set out intending to be unable to conceive.

Not so the pilltaker, pride marcher, or adult DVD collector.

Why use the rhythm method if the couple does not "set out intending to be unable to conceive"?!

misdirection like this

See below.

when you might have been pushing

See below. Your arguments fit those things that I said. They were based on your arguments, not you, so it's not presented ad hominem.

The reality is that the pill removed the meaning and responsibility of heterosexual intercourse and made it into a purely recreational activity.

This is a false statement.

Perhaps there is no meaning and responsibility in heterosexual intercourse for you, but don't assume that is how it is for everyone. I am responding to your claims, and what flows naturally from them.

Marriage and the family, and therefore all of traditional civil society, are based on sexual intercourse being an essential part of life and not a tangential, pleasant diversion.

They are not mutually exclusive. Nutrition gained from food is essential for us to flourish. Do you curse the empty calories of cotton candy, or perhaps even better, the tangential, pleasant diversion of a DIET food! AIEEE!

If you picture humanity as mere animals who procreate only because their hormones force them to, then okay, The Pill has blocked humanity's progress. But I think that people who want procreation will be able to figure out how to do it just fine, and those who want recreation, emotional bonding, etc., even without procreation, can do that without taking away from procreative sex.

47 posted on 09/29/2010 7:20:54 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: netmilsmom
Having the power to choose one’s own destiny is a VERY conservative principal [...]

Agreed.

A woman should be able to choose her own destiny; prostitution is only one option.

48 posted on 09/29/2010 7:21:58 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring

The vasectomy was/is unheard of in the dating scene, so that was silly to bring it up.

Get a simple, effective pill that single guys can take, and that guarantees that they can’t impregnate girls, then it will be Katy bar the door.

Once men can do whatever they want without a pregnancy care in the world, no money concerns, no need for fake names, no risk from any female on the planet, just free unlimited sex with no marriage, no child support, no responsibilities, no lawyers, no courts, then men will be in total, 100% control of their own lives, and of human sex, how long do you think that females will go along with that?


49 posted on 09/29/2010 7:27:21 PM PDT by ansel12 ([fear of Islam.] Once you are paralyzed by fear of Mohammedanism...you have lost the battle.)
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To: Gondring

Why are you ragging on her in such a foul way, bugging her with prostitution talk directed at her daughters?


50 posted on 09/29/2010 7:30:10 PM PDT by ansel12 ([fear of Islam.] Once you are paralyzed by fear of Mohammedanism...you have lost the battle.)
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