Church: Mormons can't lead Scouts

In shopping around for a Cub Scout program for their two sons, ages 6 and 8, Jeremy and Jodi Stokes decided on the one at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews.

The Stokes, also of Matthews, weren't members of the evangelical megachurch, but they had many friends who were. And unlike the Cub Scout pack at their own church, which doesn't have a program for 6-year-old Tiger Scouts, Christ Covenant's was big enough to accommodate both of their boys.

The couple even signed up to be Scout leaders - he would lead the Bears, she'd help with the Tigers - when they discovered the church needed more adult help. And when the Scouting officials at Christ Covenant found out Jeremy Stokes was an Eagle Scout, they were thrilled.

So why, in the end, did Christ Covenant reject the Stokes' application to be Scout leaders?

Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple last month.

The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokes' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision.

"Based on a once-over, informal scan, it looked like the Stokes would be good additions to our leadership," he said. "But when it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity."

That view - that Mormons are not Christians - is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches. Mormons, though, do call themselves Christians.

The Stokes were told their sons were welcome to join, and that they could volunteer. But as practicing Mormons, they couldn't be leaders.

Mark Turner, executive director of the Mecklenburg County Council of the Boy Scouts, said it's the first local instance he knows of where parents were rejected for Scout leadership on religious grounds.

What upset the Stokes family most was the church questioning their Christianity.

"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."

And, she added, look at the formal name of their church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Jeremy Stokes, a Bank of America financial consultant whose family has been in the LDS (Latter-day Saints) church for generations, wrote this when asked on Christ Covenant's Scouting application to describe his relationship with Christ: "One of the most important things in my life is my faith and trust in Christ and in His Atonement. Without Christ's help and guidance, I know I wouldn't be the loving father or devoted husband or humble man I am today. His example is the one help I need and rely on every day and I am truly grateful for that."

Bishop Steven Rowlan of the LDS ward, or parish, which the Stokes attend in Weddington, acknowledged that Mormon theology diverges from some beliefs shared by most Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians. But he insisted members of the LDS church are as Christian as the members of Christ Covenant.

"Yes, there are distinct differences," he said. "But not with respect to being a Christian. We definitely and truly are Christians in every sense of the word."

Not true, say Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox churches. They point to the LDS church's extra-biblical scriptures (Mormons abide by the Bible and the Book of Mormon). Mormons also reject the professions of faith, or Christian creeds, that are recited on Sundays in many Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches.

But the Stokes case raises another issue: Do Scout leaders or coaches of sports teams have to pass the same religious tests as, say, Sunday school teachers, if those troops and teams are chartered by houses of worship?

No is the answer at many churches, including Charlotte's largest - St. Matthew Catholic, with 28,000 members.

"We have Scout leaders of many faiths at St. Matthew," said Mike Nielsen, Scoutmaster of Boy Scout Troop 8. "Other than the Scoutmaster - that one job, which goes to a Catholic - I've never heard any mention of the faith of other (Cub Scout and Boy Scout) leaders."

But at Christ Covenant - the largest Presbyterian Church of America church in the Carolinas, with 600 families - the answer is yes.

"Boy Scouts is a ministry of our church," said Sylvia, the church's pastor for Christian Education and Young Families. "We want to insure that what (Scout leaders) believe is consistent with our denominational viewpoint."

For Sylvia, that at least means that Scout leaders must believe in the Apostles' Creed - a profession of faith dating back to the early centuries of Christianity.

Stelle Snyder, the spokeswoman for Christ Covenant, said it could even extend beyond that. A decade ago, she said, the church had to say no to a Catholic dad who wanted to coach one of the church's sports teams. Catholics, she said, often stress good works as the road to salvation more than many Protestants, who emphasize grace. And she said it's part of the role of coaches in her church's sports outreach program to share Bible stories.

"From the standpoint of ministering and representing the church, those people (coaches and Scout leaders) need to be on the same page," Snyder said. "In practice and intent, this is not meant to be unwelcome, unpleasant or unnecessarily legalistic. It's all for positive reasons. And it's not that Mormons have been singled out."

Turner, executive director of Mecklenburg's Boy Scouts Council, said Christ Covenant is within its rights as a chartering organization to apply additional leadership qualifications, as long as it also honors those the Boy Scouts insist on.

Some of the Boy Scouts' national guidelines have also been controversial and, to some, discriminatory. Because the Boy Scout pledge includes fealty to God and country, no atheists and agnostics can be members or leaders. Neither can homosexuals.

In Mecklenburg, Turner estimates 150 houses of worship charter Boy Scout troops and/or Cub Scout packs - a greater number than those sponsored by civic organizations, neighborhoods, and other groups.

Asked if other houses of worship apply theological tests for their Scouting leaders, Turner said he didn't know. "We're not asking that question out there," he said.

"I think it's a good question," Turner said. "Scout leaders are mentors to young people, whether they're 7 years old or 13 years old. If that charter organization feels strongly about that and says our mission is to achieve 'X' objective through scouting, then it's OK for them to set these parameters."

Blatant racial discrimination would be another story, he said, with the council reserving the right to revoke any group's charter.

As for the Stokes family, Turner said, what happened was "unfortunate... We in the Boy Scouts want everybody - the whole family - to have a great experience, not a bad experience."

Though the family pulled their sons out of the Christ Covenant scouting program, they have since signed up their 8-year-old for the smaller Cub Scout pack chartered by their Mormon ward in Weddington. The bishop has named Jeremy Stokes the pack Cubmaster and Jodi Stokes chair of the Scout committee.

Nationally, the Mormon church has a close relationship with the Boy Scouts of America. What is the Mormon church's rules about appointing Scout leaders?

Mormon Bishop Rowlan, who heads the Stokes' Weddington church, would not say whether he would be open to naming a non-Mormon as a Scouting leader.

"I'd have to take each one on an individual basis," he said, adding that that is the policy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

At Christ Covenant, meanwhile, Rev. Sylvia and spokeswoman Snyder said the Stokes case will prompt the church to clarify policies that were always understood, but not necessarily written down.

"There's a need for us to be much more specific, so that it's clear whoever is in a leadership position is consistent with what Christ Covenant teaches," said Snyder.

“So, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not Christian?

OooooooKAY!”

That the name of Jesus Christ is used in the lds title means little, in fact it was not even always in the name used by j.smith and his co-religionists.

Church of Jesus Christ
Church of God
Church of the Latter Day Saints (1834)
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (1838)
Several variations and additions to the name have been used for legal purposes since.

Please note the 2 of the first 4 names of j.smith’s organization did not include the name of Jesus Christ
in direct contradiction of the claims made in j.smiths book of mormon in Nephi 26:21 at to what the church should be called.

There are many groups the use the name of Christ in there title and have no significant relationship with Christianity as shown in the New Testament

The Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity (unifaction church - Sun Myung Moon.)

Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel (later the Peoples Temple - Jim Jones)

Few if any people would consider either of the above groups to be Christian in content.

islam also profess to believe in Jesus as Nabi Isa but only as a prophet.

knowing that Jesus is, does not make a Christian see Acts 19:15

First off, Mormons call themselves Christians but they will never say you are one too. If they wanted to be taken seriously they would say we are all Christians, Brothers and Sisters in Christ, etc. But where the real disconnect comes is that if you are not a member of the Mormon Church, you can't enter. So is it even possible for a Boy Scout group to be sponsored in a LDS church and have BSA's of other faiths as part of the pack? I somehow doubt it but please tell me if it does happen. Further, they are so doctrinally different from Protestant and Catholic faiths, it would be hard to communicate with them on spiritual issues as we are from wholly different doctrines. We don't believe you can compete with a God that shall have no others before him. They believe you can become one of many gods. We believe there is but one Savior, Jesus Christ. They believe there are two and your faith in both is required. Joseph Smith will examine your passport and determine if your are worthy to enter heaven or kolob I forget. This despite God telling us there is none worthy, no not one and no man cometh to the father but by me(Jesus) I could go on and on but there is no parity of Christianity with Mormonism and they make it clear. They do not say "We are Christians too!" They will say "We are Christians". See the difference? It's subtle but there it is. Oh, and I was ready to defend this Mormon family right up until I read the "We are Christians" and "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room". Still left out the part "We are Christians too" or "Like you, we are Christians", etc. In fact, so we are clear, they are clear in their description of Christianity and they most decidedly NOT on the same team:

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p.

"Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent."
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324

“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).

"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.