In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[Natural Law]

"Got annalex and natural law mixed up a bit there."

Yeah, you get a lot of things mixed up and wrong.

[presently no screen name]

I regret that you consider my posts here as “biased”

Should I agree with you to alleviate you of your regret? Ah yes, the PC world and their feelings.

we managed to respect one another’s Christian way of life.

So there are all sorts of beliefs - but you put them under a 'Christian' umbrella. More PC!! PC may work in the world because of deception but not in God's Kingdom.

There is ONLY ONE WAY through JESUS, WHO IS THE WORD. There is no 'tradition' attached to His Word nor man's understand of what His Word is. It is spiritually discerned. So that narrows down just who fits under the 'Christian' umbrella.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Pious talk is just what it is..

Isaiah 29:13 The Lord says: "These people come near to Me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of Me is made up only of rules taught by men."

There's more Truth for you. Do you regret anything now?

[Kolokotronis]

"What part of The HOLY SPIRIT inspired is repellent to you?"

No part at all. The HS, as promised, guided the bishops of The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church to define the canon of the Christian bible and the Fathers to properly interpret it with reference to the Holy Tradition of The Church which the HS guided the earliest bishops to teach and practice. This is called "Orthodoxia" and "Orthopraxis".

"There is no spin in God's HOLY Word."

If you mean the bible, sure there is. The Johannine Comma springs to mind. There are other examples.

"Only God's Word is Holy...."

Really? Funny, the Mohammedans say the exact same thing about Allah's Koran.

"...there are no blessings to behold without HIM/HIS Word."

Are you equating God with scripture? Don't tell me you're one of those who think when +John wrote Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν θεόν, +John was referring to the bible!!!!!!!!!!

"So according to The Word Jesus, The Savior, yes, I am blessed. I hear and obey and don't lean unto my own understanding nor am I tainted by man's teachings/traditions."

Well, good for you! :) Your comment puts me in mind of an observation made by a monk about 1400 years ago, "An angel fell from heaven without any other passion except pride."

I'm still among the chief sinners....

[Running On Empty]

Dear Kolo,

With your permission—

I think I will let this reply of yours to pnsn provide an answer for me also to post #4,802 to me.

It’s better than what I could supply and says well for me what I would want to say.

Thanking you in advance,
I remain

ROE

[OLD REGGIE]

Regarding Catholics reading NIV, I agree it's a shame. What is worse, NAB is read in the Liturgy, that is an outright scandal.

The Bishops of your Church have collectively chosen the NAB. Is it possible you are right and they are in error?

[Forest Keeper]

FK, we can never be worthy except through Christ to receive the Eucharist. And we should never, ever, be so prideful as to believe that we are "worthy" to approach the sacred Mysteries. We never judge ourselves "presumptively saved".

I would agree that any worthiness would have to be by and through Christ. According to the Bible it is either proper or improper for us to partake, and Paul tells us to determine this we should do an honest assessment of ourselves (has Christ so worked in us). The Bible gives us ample evidence of what a true Christian "looks like" so we have a perfect template for us to use. Of course if we "pass" and figure it is proper for us to partake the credit and glory for this go directly to God, not to ourselves for anything we have done to make ourselves worthy.

So, when I consider myself presumptively saved it is only a reflection of whether I believe God's Biblical promises, as best as I can understand them, to be true or not. The Bible plainly shows us what a true Christian looks like so if an honest assessment leads me to think I look like that then I say I am presumptively saved, not because of me but because God's word is true. And as Metmom just showed with her verses, the Bible also says that we may know and have confidence about this. Thus, the backing for these presumptions is never ourselves, but our understanding of what God's word says and that it is true.

Here is what we Orthodox pray immediately before receiving communion:

Theological differences aside, it's a beautiful prayer.

[caww]

All in the eye of the beholder Natural law....and we know quite well who our beholder is....I rest my case in Him and His word...not the traditions of men.

[OLD REGGIE]

"414 Q. What is Purgatory?"

Why do you persist in citing the Baltimore Catechism as being the definitive expression of Catholic doctrine when it has been explained to you many, many times that the purpose of this Catechism was only to establish initial familiarization with the concepts and language of Catholicism to a juvenile audience? That was a rhetorical question because I know the answer; it is to deceive and to diminish the Church. The actual Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:

You, inadvertantly I am sure, missed an "adult" Catechism which is in agreement with the "juvenile" Baltimore Catechism albeit with a less wordy version.

Baltimore Catechism
414 Q. What is Purgatory?
A. Purgatory is the state in which those suffer for a time who die guilty of venial sins, or without having satisfied for the punishment due to their sins.

Catechism Of The Catholic Church
1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin. *On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.

* Emphasis mine.

PS. You seemingly overlooked the role of Indulgences to those souls in Purgatory. But I guess that's another story.

[OLD REGGIE]

"So then Catholic church gave the imprimatur to incorrect doctrine to catechize children."

Even though it bent your pick, the Baltimore Catechism was a simplistic introduction to the proper Catechism of the Church meant to introduce concepts and vocabulary as the foundation for later studies. You would have to be pretty stupid to think that ten and twelve year olds are ready for Aquinas' Summa Theologica or that the goofy comic book Sunday School primers used by Protestants are any less fallible.

It is even more stupid to think any significant number of "Catholics" progressed beyond the Baltimore Catechism.

[RnMomof7]

Even though it bent your pick, the Baltimore Catechism was a simplistic introduction to the proper Catechism of the Church meant to introduce concepts and vocabulary as the foundation for later studies. You would have to be pretty stupid to think that ten and twelve year olds are ready for Aquinas' Summa Theologica or that the goofy comic book Sunday School primers used by Protestants are any less fallible.

That does not answer the question did they give false doctrine to the children?

[RnMomof7]

Or ever got there... over 30% agree with the protestant position on communion...

[Kolokotronis]

"Thus, the backing for these presumptions is never ourselves, but our understanding of what God's word says and that it is true."

That's just the problem, FK, "our understanding of what God's word says". The Church's understanding, we may be sure, is correct; our own personal understanding...not so sure. These matters are as we say "up to God". We shouldn't presume anything and hope for everything through God's mercy. I may have mentioned to you over the years, a collection of spiritual writings, mostly but not exclusively by monks, called the Philokalia. The thoughts of +Peter of Damascus, probably from the 12th century, are the most quoted in that book. He wrote for monks and his spiritual children but his observations have value to others, lay people, even today. In a section called "A Treasury of Divine Knowledge", he wrote: "...presumption alone, without any other sin, is enough to destroy the soul; for he who regards his sins as trivial is allowed to fall into those that are greater..." Worth remembering.

"Theological differences aside, it's a beautiful prayer."

Indeed it is.

[OLD REGGIE]

"Catholic encyclopedia sounds a lot like the baltimore catechism huh?"

Tip-toe around it all you like and cite any second or third hand interpretation you like. I posted what the actual Catechism of the Catholic Church says about Purgatory. I realize that you failed miserably in your first encounter with the Catechism and that self-catechesis is not very effective, but spouting what you do about it only makes you look goofy and disingenuous.

Strangely, I find more Catechism references to Purgatory than those you posted. If I were a suspicous person it would be easy to suspect a carefully selected portion of the Catechism meant to bolster your position. But, no, that couldn't be possible could it? It would make you look goofy and disingenuous.

[RnMomof7]

LOL..ahhh no one would do that Reggie

[RnMomof7]

PS. You seemingly overlooked the role of Indulgences to those souls in Purgatory. But I guess that's another story.

Thats why Trent was necessary..to firm up that flow of cash..

[stfassisi]

“”These matters are as we say “up to God”. We shouldn’t presume anything and hope for everything through God’s mercy.””

Well said,with this in mind ,we are led to be humble and avoid being puffed up.

I like what Blessed Cyprian had to say...

“Confession is the beginning of glory, not the full desert of the crown; nor does it perfect our praise, but it initiates our dignity; and since it is written, “He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved,” Matthew 10:22 whatever has been before the end is a step by which we ascend to the summit of salvation, not a terminus wherein the full result of the ascent is already gained.”
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050701.htm

[Natural Law]

"That does not answer the question did they give false doctrine to the children?"

Not false, just incomplete and obsolete. Since you can't seem to comprehend this there is no need to discuss it further.

[presently no screen name]

....I'm still among the chief sinners....

Reading your post, I agree.

"'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

God's WORD REIGNS! Jesus is THE WORD, Thank You, JESUS!

[kosta50]

So he acted infallibly when he determined the canon of Scripture? If yes, then you believe in "Sola Luthera."You know, I was going to say in my previous post that Catholics and Protestants can at least agree upon the fact that Luther was fallible. But I guess I was wrong.

In all fairness, STA, most mainline Protestants would agree with Catholics on that, but you have to understand that there are fringe, peripheral nutjobs who are "sola scriptura" wannabe church of one, who make up their own nutjob "theology" as they go along.

Not so long ago, one of these individuals posted that St. Paul spent three years in "heaven with the Lord", where he was taught everything, before returning to earth to preach the gospel of the resurrected Christ!

One way you can tell who these nutjubs are if by simply asking them what Protestant denomination they belong to. They will ignore such questions—persistently—because they know if they pick a mainline denomination its members will publicly disown them and expose them as the trolls that they are.

[kosta50]

Ooooooh, you are good for a son of simple peasant, Κολο μου! But, just like you, Никола Тесла was also a son of a simple peasant stock. Claiming ignorance based on noble peasant ancestry doesn’t hold any water, Αδελφε μου! :)