In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[metmom]

Oh sure, that's why good German Lutherans and Spanish Catholics make really tasty blood sausages. :)

And all those good Catholic Poles make duck blood soup.

And your point is?

All it means is that they are violating the directives given by God and reinforced by the Council of Jerusalem at which those called church fathers decreed that the eating of blood is prohibited. Peter was at that meeting as well. You know, the guy who Roman Catholics claim chaired the meeting and is responsible for the directives handed down.

I guess that doesn't make them so good After all, does it?

[metmom]

And so what are your pictures for comparison supposed to prove?

You cnn’t know how the Jews in the OT raised their hands to pray or praise. You weren’t there.

A staged picture of some guy posing is not *proof* of anything.

If you’re going to be the great skeptic that you claim and question Scripture because of evidence from the material world, I would hope that what you’re allowing to make you question your faith is of better substance than something like that. If that’s an example of the kind of evidence* you allow to challenge Scripture and your faith, you need to hold your standards of proof to a much higher standard.

[metmom]

Now, I have yet to see Protestants prostrate themsleves face to the ground...

Then you aren't frequenting the right Protestant churches. FWIW, I have.

Lifting up the hands is not the same as stretching out arms of the arms, but turning their palms upwards, boatbums.

Pivoting the hands at the ends of the arms so that the palms face upwards is not lifting hands up. *lifting up* means raising in elevation.

Honestly, your standard of prove as evidence against something is anemic at best. You really need to work on finding something of more substance.

If you're going to reject Scripture and the church, and by implication God, or criticize someone for being wrong, you ought to at least have some really good reasons for doing so.

Sheesh.....

[metmom]

I am POSTIVE that you have not seen every Portestant(sic) and how they worship. Regardless, it is none of your concern how anyone worships God. You can mock it, sure, as you so eagerly do whenever the mood strikes, it seems, but, as Metmom's posts showed each person answers to God in how they worship him and live their lives. I shouldn't judge them in that and you shouldn't either. It's unbecoming and juvenile. I thought you were supposed to be above all that.

spot on....

[daniel1212]

And God provided the way for believers to boldly enter into the holy of holies by the blood of Jesus (Heb. 10:19) so that they may commune with Him (not Mary. etc.). May we use this privilege more to worship and pray to Him.

But as for the blood, it will be pointed out by some that sins could be forgiven without shedding of blood, (Lv. 5:11-13) and indeed Jesus forgave sins before He made atonement. (Mt. 2:5) But it is understood that such was done under the rubric of the day of atonement, in which both a scapegoat and blood sacrifice was offered, this being commanded, “this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year.” (Lv. 16:34)

It is also pointed out that shedding of blood was for sins done in ignorance,which would seem to include being deceived, and without intent to sin, while those who sinned presumptuously, knowingly, willfully by commission or omission, such as Ex. 21:14; Num. 9:13; Dt.17:12; 29:19,20; Josh. 7:21-25, had no atonement, but had to bear their iniquity. (Num. 15:27-31)

This meant facing the consequences, and they were to be utterly (key word) cut off, evidently usually by death, such as the man who blatantly rejected the command to rest on the 7th day sabbath and gathered firewood, and was stoned. (Num. 15:32-35)

Yet terms such as “ignorantly” and “presumptuously” require more, understanding, and we have instances in which enlightened souls who perhaps did knowingly sin (2Sam. 12:13; 1Ki. 21:25-29; Ezra 10) were convicted in heart and able to repent and find mercy, though there were consequences, and in Ezra 10 their conscience appears to have been dulled, and there needs to be judgment in all this.

All this corresponds to the N.T., in which souls are treated as deceived and ignorant before their conversion, (Titus 3:3) and thus the blasphemer and injurious persecutor Saul obtained mercy, because he did it “ignorantly in unbelief.” (1Tim. 1:13) 14)

But judgment is according to light, (Lk. 16:48), and so believers are the most accountable, and like as those who would not keep the Passover were cut off, in Hebrews 10:25-39 (cf. Gal. 5:1-4) we are warned that those converts who forsake the (persecuted) Christian fellowship, and go on in impenitent willful sin (including going back into their former faith) have effectively denied and despised the faith, and will be treated as adversaries, for “the Lord shall judge his people.”

Ananias and Sapphira are two examples of such accountable souls willfully, knowingly sinning, while Simon, who “believed and was baptized,” is implicitly warned of the like in Acts 8:13,18-24 - and gets the message. And John warns about a” sin unto death,” (1Jn. 5:16) of which he says “I do not say that he shall pray for it.”

Yet in 1Cor. 5:5, a man who is involved in a most blatant sin is delivered over to the devil as a means of restorative chastisement, which worked, and in 1Cor. 11:20-32, believers who hypocritically commemorated the selfless death of Christ by selfishly pigging out at the love feast while others went hungry - thus failing to recognize other members of the church as part of the body - were also supernaturally chastened unto repentance, though with some dying. And which restorative chastisement is necessary, if we will not be condemned with the rest of the world. (v. 32)

The primitive churches (plural) “walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied, (Ps. 9:31) and we are to “rejoice with trembling,” (Ps. 2:11) as we serve an awe-some and holy God, and so must i seek to better.

[Quix]

INDEED.

[Quix]

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

[kosta50]

I am POSTIVE that you have not seen every Portestant(sic) and how they worship. Regardless, it is none of your concern how anyone worships God

I am a terrible typist and I apologize for all my spelling errors, past, present and future. :) (trying to answer a post when it's way past my bedtime doesn't help either)

I agree with you that the manner of worship, or even what people believe is none of mine, or anyone else's business, including the Portestants [sic], :)

But the reality is that the Protestants as well as Catholics and Orthodox here engage in bashing each others' beliefs, worship and even sincerity.

However, I don't remember you ever admonishing your fellow Protestants for what you call juvenile and unbecoming.

Perhaps you have forgotten that, not so long ago, you yourself called me Losta, and tried to wiggle out of that juvenile and unbecoming pit by saying it was a "joke."

Well, my dear, so it is when I say the Protestant pray like the crazed pagan Kalimar crowd in "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom," or when I say they are Paulianists. It's all a joke. I am sure you understand that, since you yourself admit to being a joker, a personal one too. So, what is the purpose of your post?

Now, joking aside, I am not sure why you hold me to Christian values, given that you think I am Losta and, as some people have hinted, don't even belong here because I doubt or don't accept their personal version of truth. Why should I be measured by Christian standards when even the Christians don't measure up to them?

[kosta50]

Real Metropolitan?

[kosta50]

Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Psalm 111:10

The OT God threatens into obedience. What else is new?

[kosta50]

And all those good Catholic Poles make duck blood soup

I remember somewhere in Acts (maybe chapter 10) Peter has a vision while in a trance [!], hearing a voice from the sky, [!] that all food is good.

All it means is that they are violating the directives given by God

And you know someone mortal who is not? What is your point? What does it matter? The OSAS crowd doesn't believe works will condemn you since you have been "saved." Remember Luther's one thousand fornications a day?

Peter was at that meeting as well. You know, the guy who Roman Catholics claim chaired the meeting and is responsible for the directives handed down

Yeah, but then he had a "vision"...

[kosta50]

You cnn’t know how the Jews in the OT raised their hands to pray or praise. You weren’t there

How can you know? Were you there? I am simply saying the Jews don't pray like the Protestants (or, in all fairness, some Protestants), and both claim it's form the OT.

A staged picture of some guy posing is not *proof* of anything.

It's the proof how the Jews pray, lifting up their hands (not arms!).

If you’re going to be the great skeptic that you claim and question Scripture because of evidence from the material world, I would hope that what you’re allowing to make you question your faith is of better substance than something like that. If that’s an example of the kind of evidence* you allow to challenge Scripture and your faith, you need to hold your standards of proof to a much higher standard

Wow, who was saying anything about faith? This is about the manner of worship. LOL.

[kosta50]

Why do you keep pinging all these people? Moral support? Obviously they are not interested.

Then you aren't frequenting the right Protestant churches.

Oh, so there are "right" and "wrong" Protestant "churches?" Could you give me at least a partial list of them so I have a better idea? And while you are at it, could you tell me what makes them right or wrong?

If you're going to reject Scripture and the church, and by implication God, or criticize someone for being wrong, you ought to at least have some really good reasons for doing so.

Any time you want to talk about it, please don't hold back. But, right now we are talking about the manner of worship, and two groups of people claiming the same source while worshiping in divergent ways (Jews and some Protestants), not about faith, Church or the Bible.

[Natural Law]

"Funny. If you would only do that, you’d leave the falsehoods of Papism behind."

Not funny. There is no such thing as "papism", other than an offensive slur. For your information, the Pope doesn't "rule" anyone. He serves his flock by advising, guiding and defending Christ's Church.

[presently no screen name]

Lifting up the hands is not the same as stretching out arms of the arms, but turning their palms upwards, boatbums.

But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Protestants...all of them...because of the error that unites them, the false doctrines of Faith Alone and Bible Alone.

Wow. Splendid. That's probably one of the few times a RC has acknowledged Protestants are united. And united on something as important as "faith alone" in Jesus Christ, made known to us by Scripture alone."

Thank God, we are united on these two righteous principles of Christianity which allude stubborn Rome.

God is good. Thanks for noticing.

[kosta50]

Protestants [including me], have prostrated themselves in worship, with their faces to the floor

Which Protestants? The Church of One?

Further, It's highly likely that the Old Testament outstretched arms, lifting 'holy' hands up to God was the same as in Pentecostal circles

Highly likely?

Old Testament Jews likely did it both ways.

I don't think so.

The outstretched arms way is obeying Scripture in Christ's own words about coming to God as little children. Perhaps you've seen a 2 year old with outstretched arms reaching for Daddy to pick her up

Oy vey!

One's worship rising up within, Holy Spirit rising up within--compels one, urges one, fosters one, leads one, to stretch as far as possible TOWARD DADDY GOD.

Reaching out "as far as possible" towards God? I thought God is everywhere. You don't really think God is "up there" looking "down" at you?

I'd have thought that someone purportedly as versed in the Old Testament as you, would have recalled the WAVE OFFERING of the Old Testament

I remember reading about it way back when. My understanding it that it was something done by the Temple priests (only), with body parts of sacrificed animals. It was a very specific priestly ritual, not something done by crowds waving wildly in the air.

From the day on which the 'omer of the wave-offering was brought the Israelites had to count seven weeks or forty-nine days, the fiftieth day being the Feast of Pentecost (ib. verses 15 et seq.). The counting is still practised; and, though the bringing of the 'omer ceased with the destruction of the Temple, the days between Passover and Pentecost are called the "'omer days [Ency. Heb., 'Omer]

However, Proddys likely welcome your being your habitual contrarianly wrong most any time, about Scripture and authentic Christianity

"authentic Christianity" established with such irrefutable "arguments" as "very likely" and misplaced snippets from the Old Testament? I guess I am a failure as a "Proddy," and find it strange when people wave their arms in the air like a bunch of crazed-out pagans trying to reach [sic] "as close as possible" to an omnipresent God!

One doesn't do a "WAVE OFFERING" with arms held half way.

One doesn't. You have to be a Temple priest to do the wave-offering, and then then he better have a bloody body part in his hands. :) (It is an offering after all! Empty hands are good for naught, LOL.) But since there is no Temple, even that is not an option any more, Q.

So, do some Proddys think they are Jews?

Worshippers of The Living God in congregations not given to such practices are missing out on a very Biblical Blessing in their avoidance of a very Biblical practice.

No Christians, to the best of my knowledge, not even the Pentecostals, wave slaughtered animal body parts in their hands trying to reach as close as possible to God, Q. What they do is a tradition of men that has nothing in common with the Jewish practice.

[kosta50]

But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Then no rituals, not even waving of the hands, is necessary, no works, not even going to church. I just find it disingenuous when Protestants make fun of Catholics/Orthodox and their "empty rituals", while they themselves wave aimlessly in the air as if saying "I am here!" to an omnipresent omniscient God.

[Kolokotronis]

You’ve got mail!

[esquirette]

It is the same God, who was and is and is to come.