Posted on 12/08/2010 1:48:05 PM PST by Alex Murphy
Half a century ago, as he met with a Mormon leader, David Ben-Gurion remarked, "There are no people in the world who understand the Jews like the Mormons."
All these years later, that remark still rings true for many — if not most — Latter-day Saints, or "Mormons," including myself.
The two faiths and cultures have so much in common, from paralleled histories of persecution to similar values of marrying within the faith and keeping a religious and cultural heritage vibrant, even in an ever-secularizing and homogenizing world.
Most importantly, Latter-day Saints believe in Jehovah. We share a common belief in the Messiah who will come.
Like Judaism, Mormonism is more than a once-a-week religion. It is a way of life that guides its believers' everyday choices, from what they put in their bodies (no coffee, alcohol, or tobacco) to what entertainment they seek and language they use.
Beyond the deep and sacred doctrines, it also has its cultural quirks, like its own terminology, an affinity for acronyms, and the ever-present green jello (not nearly as delicious as matzah ball soup, but we take what we can get!)
When j. weekly asked me to author a blog about Mormons and Jews, I was thrilled at the opportunity. Admittedly, I am no expert on Judaism, although I do know more than the average gentile.
While interning for the Michael Medved Show in college, I was privileged to spend a good amount of time in the Medveds' Seattle home, including joining them for Shavuot.
I was both impressed by the depth of their devotion to their faith and enchanted by the beauty of their worship — the candles, prayers, solemnity of the rites and the spirited joy of dinner afterward.
When I returned to Brigham Young University that fall, I added a class on Judaism to my schedule, and I've held a profound respect for and love of all things Jewish ever since. If I weren't Mormon, I would want to be Jewish.
Ezra Taft Benson, the Latter-day Saint leader with whom Ben-Gurion was visiting when he made the earlier quote, once said, "We need to know more about the Jews, and the Jews ought to know more about the Mormons."
I agree.
Thank you for sharing this journey with me as I explore the kinship and commonalities between our faiths and cultures.
Like Judaism, Mormonism is more than a once-a-week religion. It is a way of life that guides its believers' everyday choices, from what they put in their bodies (no coffee, alcohol, or tobacco) to what entertainment they seek and language they use.
"Mormons focus on accessible, social aspects of their religion. Although the Mormon system of doctrine is genuinely attractive to many of its members, many have argued that the primary "glue" of Mormonism is the heritage, culture, and family ties, not the doctrine and theology. In other words, the typical allegiance to the Mormon organization primarily stems from something other than doctrinal concerns. The average Mormon sitting in a pew does not care how or why their religion works, they only care that it works for them."Related threads:
-- from the thread Atheoligical Tendency ~Open~
The Mormon/Smithian concept of the Mormon god:
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)
Smith's worldview of time as it pertains to the gods: Smith believed in a "beginning" that was operative before the Mormon plan to the create this world. The question becomes, who is the head of the Gods as pertains to this ‘council of gods?
In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)
“I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)
Whatever is taken by Smith as the ’beginning’, the Alpha point, Smith says god was a man. That he "was once as we are now." We already know from the above quote that the Mormon godhead came even after the Mormon god was appointed. The Mormon god was no godhead of three acting as one in purpose but three different gods in the beginning Smith portrays, yet John’s Gospel starts with 'The Word, Jesus, was with God and was God in the beginning.'
“I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the Gods of heaven. '...Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them.' If Abraham reasoned thus--If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly. Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)
What's being said here? … The teaching of infinite regression of gods! Readers, that is precisely what polytheism is, a belief in multiple gods. Mormons at FR deceitfully parse that to mean they aren't polytheistic because they only 'worship' the current godhead of three gods working in common purpose! But it is clearly polytheism since Smith is claiming that the Mormon jesus had a grandpa and great-grandpa!
Finally, Smith claims that God the Father also laid down His life in some sort of redemptive way, to earn/gain exaltation and the attributes of godhood! Which means whatever "time" you want to leave undefined, apparently god the father in Mormonism had time enough to live as a man and die as a man for some whole other world, before the Mormon god was a god!
Smith says Heavenly Father laid down his life as a redeemer on another world. Brigham Young added that “every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter”. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870)
If there is no ultimate beginning, then there is no ‘Alpha‘, which of course contradicts what God said of Himself as The Alpha and Omega.
"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father, and so on, from generation to generation, from one heavenly world to another still more ancient, until our minds are wearied and lost in the multiplicity of generations and successive worlds, … and as a last resort, we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten. But why does man seek for a first, when revelation informs him that God's works are without beginning? (Lds apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 132, 1853)
The highest authorities in the Mormon Church openly blatantly and hatefully baptize the ancestry of religious Jews around the world against the express wishes, demands and lawsuits of every rabbinical and civic group in the Jewish Diaspora.
It is the most extreme form of organized religious hate seen in Western Civilization today.
When the Jewish leadership met with Mormon Leaders inside the LDS HQ in Salt Lake City, the Mormons lied to the faces of the Jewish leadership not once, but 7 times just in the last decade regarding a termination of the practice of baptizing posthumously the Holocaust dead.
This little college girl attends the University where the Mormon researchers use the library to research and organize the posthumous baptizing program.
“It is the most extreme form of organized religious hate seen in Western Civilization today.”
This is what I don’t understand: What harm could baptizing for the dead do? If it’s a crock, which you apparently believe, then no harm done; it’s a meanless act. So why get yourself so worked up?
I am the only Mormon in my entire family line (that I know about) and I have “done the work” for many of my deceased relatives. I have no clue why that would make anyone mad, especially if they don’t believe in the doctrines of my Church.
Furthermore, Heavenly Father would never force Himself on anyone. We believe that free agency continues after death.
I am not shocked that you cannot comprehend the ‘disrespect for the dead’ the arrogant Momron necro-baptizing entails. Mormons have real blind spots. Thank you for illustrating the fact.
Mormon have a history of disrespecting the dead. bring’em young tore the cross down from the rock cairn over the dead from Mountain Meadows and the lds church have refused to all surviving relatives to replace it.
“Mormon have a history of disrespecting the dead. “
I believe that just the opposite is true.
Do you accuse St. Paul of this? 1 Corinthians 15:29
You cannot be that low in IQ points that the numerous times the passage has been extensively explained to you has not yet registered in your Mormon brain. I won’t waste yet aother thread explaining what your blindness wishes to ignore so that your cultish beliefs can have one missapplied passage to substantiate the demonic necro-baptizing done by your non-Christian religion.
The LDS Articles of Faith (which I dare not post here due to desecration by the anti Mormons) contain what Mormons believe . . . if anyone reading this is interested.
What we Mormons believe is not what the anti Mormons keep posting over and over and over and over again.
If you sincerely want to know what we believe, read the 13 LDS Articles of Faith. Sorry, I cannot post them here as the anti Mormons have a field day chopping them up, desecrating them, and trampling them under foot. And this is hunky dorie with the Religion Moderator.
Ms Duffy, when I post the direct quotes from your founder and subsequent faux prophets, it is not deception as you would like to portray it. YOU are being deceptive now and it reeks of typical mormonism apologetics. Momronism is not Christian and the quotes prove it succinctly. Do you want me to post the quotes as found in the LDS archived church teachings?
Articles of Faith/Mormonism:
Joseph Smith
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)
Smith's worldview of time as it pertains to the gods: Smith believed in a "beginning" that was operative before the Mormon plan to the create this world. The question becomes, who is the head of the Gods as pertains to this ‘council of gods?
In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)
“I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)
Whatever is taken by Smith as the ’beginning’, the Alpha point, Smith says god was a man. That he "was once as we are now." We already know from the above quote that the Mormon godhead came even after the Mormon god was appointed. The Mormon god was no godhead of three acting as one in purpose but three different gods in the beginning Smith portrays, yet John’s Gospel starts with 'The Word, Jesus, was with God and was God in the beginning.'
“I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the Gods of heaven. '...Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them.' If Abraham reasoned thus--If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly. Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)
What's being said here? … The teaching of infinite regression of gods! Readers, that is precisely what polytheism is, a belief in multiple gods. Mormons at FR deceitfully parse that to mean they aren't polytheistic because they only 'worship' the current godhead of three gods working in common purpose! But it is clearly polytheism since Smith is claiming that the Mormon jesus had a grandpa and great-grandpa!
Finally, Smith claims that God the Father also laid down His life in some sort of redemptive way, to earn/gain exaltation and the attributes of godhood! Which means whatever "time" you want to leave undefined, apparently god the father in Mormonism had time enough to live as a man and die as a man for some whole other world, before the Mormon god was a god!
Smith says Heavenly Father laid down his life as a redeemer on another world. Brigham Young added that “every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter”. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870)
If there is no ultimate beginning, then there is no ‘Alpha‘, which of course contradicts what God said of Himself as The Alpha and Omega.
"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father, and so on, from generation to generation, from one heavenly world to another still more ancient, until our minds are wearied and lost in the multiplicity of generations and successive worlds, … and as a last resort, we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten. But why does man seek for a first, when revelation informs him that God's works are without beginning? (Lds apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 132, 1853)
And we will delve into what LDS teach regarding the Mormon jesus next. To be sure, these 'deeper' precious offerings are not taught to the newly inducted into Mormonism, perhaps because the inductee would run from this heresy immediately, before the spirit is squelched so much as to sear the conscience into drinking the deeper lies. And whom is the Mormon jesus? A polygamist, according to the founders of the Mormon religion!
"Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82)."There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).
"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).
"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346).
"One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that great loved Jesus, such as Mary and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them and associated with the much; and when he arose from the dead, instead of first showing himself to his chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them--namely, Mary Magdalene. Now, it would be very natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were his wives." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 159).
And is/was the Mormon jesus, God with us? NO! Not according to Mormonism. Mormonism teaches that the Mormon jesus gained the attributes of godhood and was not therefore God with us prior to the resurrection! And they teach that the Mormon jesus and satan are spirit brothers in a ‘pre-existence’, making the Mormon jesus an equal with not superior to the created angels … of course prior to gaining the attributes of Mormon godhood. [Literally, according to the founders of Mormonism, the LDS jesus is our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in a ‘premortal life‘. According to Momronism, Jesus, Lucifer and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters. (LDS Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18)(D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354) ]
"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).“It is readily apparent from these scriptures that there was a war in heaven in which Christ and Satan (Lucifer) fought against each other, and that there were followers of each. Satan was defeated and cast out along with his “angels” or followers. Where were all these followers, and who were they? The answer is that they were us. Christ and Satan and their followers warred in a heaven that pre-existed this earth and mortal existence. All of us lived in this heavenly spiritual realm before we were born with physical bodies on the earth. Christ was begotten of the Father, as were all of us, including Lucifer, who was a Son of the Morning. The title “Son of the Morning” could either signify that Lucifer was one of the earliest born of the spirits, or was illustrious, or both. The name Lucifer means “lightbearer” or “shining one.” Since both Christ and Lucifer were born of the Father, they are brothers in a spiritual sense, as all of us are brothers and sisters in that sense. (LDS teaching regarding Joseph Smith‘s, Pearl of Great Price: Book of Moses 4:1-4)
So, when one reads the mormon articles of faith, one needs to knowthe mormon definition of god, whom is the mormon god, and the quotes from the founder, Smith, show a very different god in the religion of mormonism. And so it goes for the jesus of mormonism, too.
I gave a specific example SD - unable to answer intelligently?
Over the years mormons have promised NOT to necrodunk Jews - yet have broken their promise each time. Lying for the Lord SD?
But then they don’t respect other religions sacred sites either.
“Furthermore, Heavenly Father would never force Himself on anyone.”
Does that include the mormon Heavenly Mother (4th Mormon Earth Goddess), when He breeds with her and keeps her pregnant for eternity...???
You or any other mormon doesn’t have the right to dismiss the wishes of a deceased person’s family. No matter how “righteous” you might think the necrodunking is.
The blatant and persistent disrespect for a family’s wishes is the “harm”.
Again with the arrogance “why get yourself so worked up?” statement. She can if she wants, it’s not your prerogative to decide anything that’s personal in nature to anyone outside of your family.
It’s not your (mormons) call.
JFTR, if SLC was sincere, this would stop within minutes of being notified by the mormon church president and GA’s.
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