The Apparent "Good" in Natural Man

Monergism.Com ^ | J.W. Hendryx

[Gamecock]

If natural man's condition is Total Depravity, How do we account for the apparent "good" in the unregenerate?

Good question because the meaning of total depravity is often misunderstood. It should first be pointed out what "total depravity" does not mean. The doctrine does not refer to man being as evil a creature as he can be. All fallen, unregenerate human beings are endowed with many of God's common graces. God has blessed all men with a conscience and the capacity to promote virtue and civil righteousness. It is abundantly clear that many beautiful aspects of the world we live in have been brought forth by those which are unredeemed by God's regenerative grace. God has gifted natural men and women with the skill to create beautiful music, make profound works of art, to invent intricate machines and do countless things that are productive, excellent and praiseworthy. John Calvin said,

"Those men whom Scripture calls "natural men" were, indeed, sharp and penetrating in their investigation of inferior things. Let us, accordingly, learn by their example how many gifts the Lord left to human nature even after it was despoiled of its true good." (Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, 274-275).

It would be natural to ask, then, if man is totally depraved, how is it that he can bring forth so many good things? This question is indeed valid but misunderstands what is meant when we talk about man as being rendered depraved by the fall.

So what is meant, then, by the total depravity and spiritual inability of the natural man? It means that man's many good works, even though in accord with God's commands, are not well pleasing to God when weighed against His ultimate criteria and standard of perfection. The love of God and His law is not the unbelievers' deepest animating motive and principle (nor is it his motive at all), so it does not earn him the right to redemptive blessings from a holy God. The Scripture clearly implies this when it states "...without faith it is impossible to please Him." (Hebrews 11:6a, NASB) and "whatever is not from faith is sin." (Romans 14:23) So if man "is restrained from performing more evil acts by motives that are not owing to his glad submission to God, then even his "virtue" is evil in the sight of God." (John Piper) His purpose for doing good works are not from a heart that loves God. Being unspiritual, that is, without the Holy Spirit, "... men do not rise above themselves" (Calvin) But now through our justification and regeneration in Christ, we are enabled, for the first time, to be pleasing to God on the basis of Christ's work and, from this union, the work of the Holy Spirit renews our affections for God, giving us understanding of, and a delight in, spiritual things and turning our heart of stone to a heart of flesh.

Total depravity only means man is lost (Luke 19:10), unspiritual by nature, and thus he is utterly impotent to recover himself from his ruined estate (John 6:44, 65, Rom 8:7; Eph 2:1, 2:5; Rom 3:11; 2 Corinthians 4:4-6). In other words he is unable to do any redemptive good. Fallen man does not desire God, he loves darkness and hates the light (John 3:19,20) so he will not come into Christ at all except he be reborn by the Holy Spirit (John 1:13, 3:6, John 6:37, 39, 44, 63-66; Rom 9:16).

Calvin made an observation from Romans 1 that all men (regenerate and unregenerate) have a sense of the divine within them. Even unbelievers know God in a sense because God has impressed his image on all persons. The apostle Paul said, "For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him..." (Rom 1:21) Since the Holy Spirit does not dwell with the fallen, the source of natural man's affections come from a polluted well. He has a sense of the divine and knows God, but only as an enemy, "and by their unrighteousness suppress the truth" (Rom 1:18). God has impressed humanity with a conscience and it restrains him from doing even more evil, but his heart cannot reach to the heavens to God unless the Spirit first pour His blessings down from heaven. God extends his love to man but since he is hostile to God by nature he will always reject Him. All are responsible to come to Him but inexcusable for their "knowing Him" but refusing to come to Him. "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." It is our duty to repent but we will not do so unless God grants repentance (2 Tim 2:25) and give us new eyes to see the truth. Without Scripture and the Holy Spirit we only distort the true light God has given us in His creation. Since the Scripture declares that we suppress the truth and make idols of all things created (Rom 1:18), so if our blindness is to be removed, it is not just the light of God we need (Scripture), but also new eyes to see that light (the Holy Spirit).

- John W. Hendryx

Related Articles
Human Depravity by R.C. Sproul
Is it possible to not worship Jesus and still be moral? by John Piper
Total Depravity by John Piper
Biblical Regeneration and Affectional Theology by John Hendryx
Can Spiritual Man Learn from Natural Man? by Jack Crabtree

[Cronos]

The problem with this hard-line Calvinism is that it does not account for man's decision-making ability

True, and if you couple this with double predestination, then it's like saying God is a roboticist --He makes us, His robots, programmed to do good or evil. We robots are hence already pre-programmed to do good or evil and do not "choose" to do anything as per Calvin. Then, linking this to the hard-line zero free-will, that means that God/the roboticist directs the robots' actions down to the lowest detail.

Then, as per Calvin's philosophy, the roboticist, at the end of the robot's lifespan tells the pre-programmed "evil" robot: "Ha, ha, you did the evil that I pre-programmed you to do and you were directed by my actions as you had no free will. However, you were evil, so now you're going to be tormented in hell for eternity".

[Cronos]

Mosiah 3:19

For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

Interesting -- so does Mormonism share the same Calvinist belief in the Total Depravity of mankind?

[Cronos]

1. Mr. R never claimed that Gen 4 was the Gospels.

6The LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.” - Gen 4

2. Why do you reject Revelations by saying "It is not an evangelistic verse"

[Ripliancum]

Interesting — so does Mormonism share the same Calvinist belief in the Total Depravity of mankind?
______________________________________________________________________

No. It's not the same thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Calvinism professes predestination, total depravity and unconditional election.
Mormonism professes free agency, no original sin, and children who are alive in Christ and unspotted from the world until they reach the age of accountability.

I would recommend reading Moroni 8. Here's a snip.

8 Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me.

9 And after this manner did the Holy Ghost manifest the word of God unto me; wherefore, my beloved son, I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children.

10 Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach—repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.

11 And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins.

12 But little children are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world;...

http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/8?lang=eng

[Gamecock]

The PCA is now freeling choosing to ordain women deacons

Freeling? Do you mean freely? Actually they are, as far as I know, studying the issue.

I would however, submit to you that the ordination of women as Deacons is far less serious than ordaining homosexuals like the Catholic Church does, and certainly less damaging than the criminal conspiracy of moving child molesting priest from one parish to another unsuspecting one...

and also free will debates on Federal Vision

Which has, BTW, been declared a heresy.

[Cronos]

Thank you. But your excerpt from Mosiah said For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, which must mean Original Sin, correct? and and will be, forever and ever, would mean Total Depravity, correct?

[Cronos]

No, I meant freeling :-P

Sorry, was busy trying to get SciFi channel to re-start the Farscape series and got lost in that language!

The Church doesn't ordain a person who says he's a homo and has always checked that those with such tendencies do not join -- this was lax in the 50s but the checks are far more rigourous now since JPII

But, seriously -- if you do not believe in free will, how do you freely choose to have Women Deacons in the PCA? Isn't that against St. Paul?

[RnMomof7]

We have free will. Some people freely choose evil and others freely choose good.

Man is free to choose as he will the question is can he will what he can not do?

[RnMomof7]

Did Christ die for

1. All the sins of all men.
2. All the sins of some men, or
3. Some of the sins of all men.

[Ripliancum]

I think we have a very different idea of what original sin means.

As a Mormon, I believe that because of the Fall of Adam and Eve, all people live in a fallen condition, separated from God and subject to physical death. However, we are not condemned by what many call the “original sin.” In other words, we are not accountable for Adam’s transgression in the Garden of Eden.

Our articles of faith address this head on.
“We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression” (Articles of Faith 1:2).

As to “Total Depravity”, no. The atonement of Christ as an eternal necessity, eternally balancing justice and mercy. This in contrast to the sectarian view of the catastrophic fall and total depravity of man, sometimes juxtaposed with the sectarian doctrine of Ultimate Reconciliation.

Hope that makes sense.

[Ripliancum]

BTW, James 4:4 says pretty much the same thing as the Mosiah reference, about the natural man being an enemy of God.

“Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.”

http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/james/4?lang=eng

Hope that helps.

[Gamecock]

I can’t answer that question. I am not in a PCA that “ordains” women deacons.

In fact, I am not in the PCA.

[Gamecock]

***Sorry, was busy trying to get SciFi channel***

I miss Mystery Science Theater 3000. Wifey hates that I found it on NetFlix and can watch it instantly.

[Cronos]

Pity they don’t make any new episodes though...