Cessationism Refuted [i.e. Gifts & Operations of HS Stopped at End of Rev]

http://www.charlescarrinministries.com/ [Partially] ^ | 28 FEB 2010 | Charles Carrin & Steven Lambert

[Quix]

INDEED.

Have you two . . . and anyone else . . . noticed in the last couple of weeks . . .

another significant uptick in the rate and degree of significance of

. . . how to put it . . .

END TIMES related news, issues, events, ‘vibes,’ etc?

[HossB86]

Cronos —

I have stated my faith, many times in fact, in many threads where you are a participant. Seems odd that you are desperately trying to make this thread about individual FReepers by continually haranguing posters about their faith... when these posters (myself included) have already made professions of faith.

“...us Christians.” Funny.

What IS sad though, is when confronted with facts that contradict your assertion, instead of dealing with the issue, admitting error, or explaining the miscue, you seem always revert to making it personal.

Sorry. Not gonna play. I am Christian, and you’ve read my statements of faith.

Now... try leveling charges that are based in fact, not the opinion of a poster in a Q&A forum.

Hoss

[HossB86]

You’ve got right, Quix. It’s amazing, isn’t it???

:D

Hoss

[Natural Law]

"Rome teaches superstition and error, in contrast to the evidence of Scripture."

I still don't know who this "Rome" you keep railing about is, but thankfully, the Catholic Church teaches Truth. But then again, I wouldn't expect anyone from the Machen personality cult to know anything about the Truth or the Catholic Church.

[Alamo-Girl]

The economic situation driven by an increasingly absurd price for oil coupled with the present political distaste for US drilling has diminished the only real friend Israel had in this world and has increased the power and wealth of the Islamic world while at the same time the Arab region is beset by political instability spurred on by Islamic fundamentalists.

So, yes...

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Cronos cuts and pastes snippets from various sources, none of which addresses the questions being discussed.

Cronos draws his own conclusions of what other writers are saying and very often those conclusions are ignorant and unintelligible.

Cronos does not discuss issues; he levels idiotic charges, none of which are supported by Scripture.

All that is his prerogative. But none of us should confuse his posts with intelligent debate or a sound defense of his faith. It’s all “vain jangling.” Noise. None of which is supported by Scripture nor glorifies God.

We are known by our fruit. ‘Nuff said. 8~)

[Cronos]

the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Has the mask finally slipped, Alamo-girl? Are you saying we are your "enemy"? Is it so much easier to tie up with atheists and unitarians as long as they are anti-Catholic?

[Mr Rogers]

“they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Picked up any serpents lately? Ignored the poison signs on bottles? Visited a hospital and healed the sick?

I believe God gives gifts IAW His will, as needed for His purpose - not ours. I don’t believe gifts have ceased, but neither do I believe they are as omnipresent as some Pentecostals suggest.

[Cronos]

you mean facts like that you will not answer if you believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, God and Savior? That he is the Word incarnate, who suffered, died, was buried and rose again from the dead?

Oh, yes, your silence is glaring and no, your posts have never spoken about your faith, rather your posts contain purely attacks. Only a Christian would believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, God and Savior,the Word incarnate, who suffered, died, was buried and rose again from the dead

If you don't wish to believe that, it's your free will..

[Mr Rogers]

“or, get this, the Holy Spirit cannot guide the Magisterium, but ‘indwells” in every milkmaid and farmhand...LOL”

I’d put it thus: “The Holy Spirit is alive and well, but He doesn’t contradict what he said earlier to the Apostles. Scripture “is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

So if something goes beyond scripture, it may not be false, but neither is it needed to equip the servant of God for every good work!

[Natural Law]

"is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,..."

You won't get this Catholic to deny the divine nature of the letters to Timothy, but how do you reconcile that, at the time it was written, the New Testament did not yet exist nor was there an Old Testament canon universally agreed upon by all Jews? Further, how do you reconcile it against itself which was a teaching based upon tradition?

[presently no screen name]

EXCELLENT POST!!!!!!

[Mr Rogers]

"how do you reconcile that, at the time it was written, the New Testament did not yet exist"

It says all scripture, so once scripture was complete, we had what we needed. The divine authority of the Apostles, who wrote scripture, was then finished. There is no need for a new Apostle, to reveal more, since the Apostles finished their task.

As Peter put it:

16For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," 18we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

Their first hand experience with Jesus was wonderful, but they left behind "something more sure, the prophetic word".

"how do you reconcile it against itself which was a teaching based upon tradition?"

"But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it..."

Timothy learned from the Apostle Paul. I'd be willing to accept his authority, but I won't give his authority to the doctors of the Catholic church - the Magisterium - who go beyond what the Apostles taught.

Paul told the Ephesian elders:

25And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again. 26Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all of you, 27for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. 28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. 29I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them." - Acts 20

Paul taught the whole counsel of God. There was nothing more the Magisterium needed to reveal. Nor did men have any business trying to add to what the Apostles taught:

"9Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works." - 2 John

If we were to abide in the teaching, then it didn't need additional revelation from church doctors. On the contrary: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."

Paul didn't advise Timothy to follow the traditions of man, but to follow what he received from the Apostles, and that which, by the will of God, was turned into scripture - which Peter said was more sure than his own memories of Jesus Christ. "For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

"nor was there an Old Testament canon universally agreed upon by all Jews?"

By all Jews? No. By Jesus and the Apostles? Yes. When Jesus and the Apostles said, "It is written...", they didn't confine themselves to the Pentateuch. They accepted the whole of the Old Testament, yet they never cited the Apocrypha for authority.

For example, in Mark 1 we read, "As it is written in Isaiah the prophet..", so we know the Apostles accepted Isaiah as authoritative. You won't find "It is written..." said of the Apocrypha, which is why we know the Jews rejected it - in the time of Christ - and why many Catholics taught that the Apocrypha was good for public reading, but not for doctrine, and why the Protestants took that Catholic teaching to heart and rejected it as scripture - for scripture itself says real scripture is "useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

[HossB86]

So VERY true.

“Tinkling cymbals”’does come to mind, doesn’t it? ;)

Hoss

[Natural Law]

"Cronos cuts and pastes snippets from various sources, none of which addresses the questions being discussed. Cronos draws his own conclusions of what other writers are saying and very often those conclusions are ignorant and unintelligible. Cronos does not discuss issues; he levels idiotic charges, none of which are supported by Scripture.

All that is his prerogative. But none of us should confuse his posts with intelligent debate or a sound defense of his faith. It’s all “vain jangling.” Noise. None of which is supported by Scripture nor glorifies God.

We are known by our fruit. ‘Nuff said.

Cronos' posts may be repetitious, but never personal as this post is. In fact I can't think of a better example of a post "about another Freeper", ever.

I scrolled back through your (RM) posting history and I find that Dr. Eckleburg is one of the more often warned offenders for this very offense. One would think that anyone who so frequently warns other FReepers against rules infractions would at least understand the concept and herself demonstrate an attempt to comply.

[Religion Moderator]

Do not make this thread "about" another Freeper. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Alamo-Girl]

The passage I quoted showing that "sowing discord among brethren" is an abomination to God - applies to all people regardless of their beliefs, e.g. Catholic, Jew, Orthodox, Methodist, Mormon, Muslim, Atheist - whatever.

These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. - Proverbs 6:16-19

Beyond that your implications are absurd and deserve no recognition.

[Cronos]

Alamo-girl, the passage you quoted was the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

This is not Biblical but an Arabic proverb

[Quix]

Yeah.

Thx for your kind reply.

In the first 25% of reinstalling everything on my desktop. Sigh.

[Cronos]

I am gratified to have my faith in you restored as you say applies to all people regardless of their beliefs, e.g. Catholic, Jew, Orthodox, Methodist, Mormon, Muslim, Atheist - whatever.

Thank you for that. Catholics,Methodists, Pentecostals, Lutherans, Orthodox, Presbyterians, Copts etc do share the belief in Jesus Christ, our Lord, God and Savior, part of the ONE Triune God, Father-Son-Holy Spirit