HAVE YOU NOTICED THIS ABOUT MORMONS?

Various | April 17, 2011 | Vanity

[Pharmboy]

Things must be slow under the bridge today for you to come up from under, get online and spread your ugliness around. I hope things improve in Troll land for you.

[SZonian]

Not slow, just need to get back under my bridge before the sun comes up.

In regards to “spreading ugliness around”, hijacking a thread by building strawman arguments to be used against the OP is what I find ugly. An inability or unwillingness to distinguish between the system vs. the people is a pattern of behavior on these threads.

If, as you say, you don’t know much about the system of mormonISM and your sample size of mormons is ~10, does that grant you a greater license to make hay? What about someone who was a member for some years married to an active mormon for over 20? What kind of license do they warrant?

Crawling back under my bridge now...

[greyfoxx39]

You need the ignore button...I have noticed that there are two or three who have been trying to get this thread locked for "childish behavior" since it was first posted. That seems to be their only goal, as they are not interested in the actual subject.

Just follow the woman's example.

[rickomatic]

LOL! Well said my FRiend. Most posters on this thread would not know John Browining from madona. I mean darn, he only designed many weapons that won WW2. He's a Mormon.....so he's.......evil.

He invented a lot more than just WWII weapons. Most of the popular firearms designs still in production were either invented or perfected by him and manufactured under names like Winchester, FN, Remington, Colt and Browning.If you ever get a chance, there is a Biography DVD out there called "American Gunmaker,The John M. Browning Story". It is very interesting. He was a brilliant inventor.
My point was that there is a clear distinction between a person, and the theology under which he lives. This post is about the shortcomings of MormonISM, as has been noted several times. We as Christians are to contend for the faith. This means pointing out errors in ISM's. The reason for this is that Christ told us that He was the ONLY way to salvation. If we believe that we are compelled to tell others about it, and to point out any errors that lead souls away from Him. Because of the extreme errors in MormonISM we MUST point them out. Believe it or not, this is an act of love. If we hated Mormons, we would be happy seeing them continue to travel along the destructive path they're on.

So, see my FRiend, there is a distinction. My comment was an attempt to illustrate that. John Moses Browning (and ALL Mormons) are not evil. They are simply lost. Just as we all once were. We want to show them the true treasure available to them, away from the evil clutches of MormonISM.

[Pharmboy]

Ha...good response. Since I defined my terms for all to see, i.e., I announced my n of Mormons, I did not believe my posts were bloviations. And, in another post on this thread I did apologize for being off topic since my post did not deal with the theological issues.

I thought I was adding something positive by saying something nice about people in a group that I had worked closely with for several years and also got to know their families. I was wrong...all that came to mind after a few of the negative responses was: "No good deed goes unpunished."

And please come out from under your bridge, it's a beautiful day up here.

[Godzilla]

I did not believe my posts were bloviations

That isn't stopping the EPA from wanting to control your emissions of greenhouse gasses.

I thought I was adding something positive by saying something nice about people in a group that I had worked closely with for several years and also got to know their families.

Same could be said about ANY group - some are nice, others aren't. However, that is inadequate when the commentary is theologically based. Being 'nice' won't get you into heaven. Wearing a white shirt and tie - won't get you into heaven.

Perhaps you can get on topic with your response.

[Elsie]

Allow me to explain: without the wide support in the Muslim community, the DOers would not do (or at least, not NEAR as much as they do now). I hope this helps.

Yes; the MUSLIMs DO get 'support' from the strangest places. I hope the following enlightens.

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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2686093/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2571312/posts

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“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1] 

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith  taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

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[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith  & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

[Elsie]

They are simply lost.

[SZonian]

After re-reading your posts, I see that my original comment was a bit over the top. My apologies.

My patience was in short supply. Historically, on mormonISM threads, there is no lack of folks who come on and say they like the mormons which is perfectly ok, I like them too.

Implausible you say? Nah. I married a mormon before I became one. I was one for some years and quit, yet we’re still married. I’ve worked with them, I have been a Scouter with many. They’re good people for the most part, like any group, they have their bad as well. But I try like heck to segregate the good from the bad.

It’s just that many of those same folks then hijack the thread and start accusing folks of hating mormons when the efforts are truthfully the opposite. We do care for them. We believe, with the Bible as our standard, that their doctrine and church is false. Trying to enlighten them to that is a challenge, trying to get others to see that is as well.

Yes, you’re right. It is a beautiful day, I think I’ll take your advice.

FRegards,
SZ

[Pharmboy]

Well, I certainly did not know that; thanks for taking the time to post.

Again, I apologize for saying nice things about Mormons as people and seeming to want to hijack this thread--which I did not. This was all innocent on my part but I have learned my lesson well.

[ScreamingFist]

It’s just that many of those same folks then hijack the thread and start accusing folks of hating mormons when the efforts are truthfully the opposite. We do care for them.

I guess I have been reading a different thread than you. At least I can spell Mormon with a capital letter. Off topic.....very nice home page. I was Air Force as well, I surely miss those days.

[Elsie]

Again, I apologize for saying nice things about Mormons as people and seeming to want to hijack this thread--which I did not.

Even we ANTIs (as we are lovingly known) say nice things about MORMONs.

It's MORMONism that's hellish and demonic and capable of creating some mighty strange logical disconnects in it's members.

[Elsie]

At least I can spell Mormon with a capital letter.

I can do it with SIX!

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Oh! I wuz a bus driver too!

(Has it REALLY been THAT long ago? Back when Lowry was still an airbase and Moses Lake was too.)

[ScreamingFist]

Oh! I wuz a bus driver too!

I was crewmember on the RC-135 recon birds, AMT. Electronic Security Command. Hellinicon in Athens, Greece. Hellinicon is gone now as well......

[ScreamingFist]

Oh! I wuz a bus driver too!

What's the deal on this religion forum? You all just spew silly statements and give off hand insults and hope the Mod doesn't delete you?

[ScreamingFist]

not surprising - your level of spirituality is that of the ‘70s “Jesus Christ Superstar”.

Oh dear. So you dislike Mormons AND Jesus Christ Superstar. I guess the big question is, what do you like godzilla?

[Elsie]

You all just spew silly statements and give off hand insults and hope the Mod doesn't delete you?

Off hand?

I thought mine wuz direct and to the point!

I must be slipping!

[Elsie]

Takin’ out Tokyo rates really high!

(Why doesn’t Mothra post any more?)

[ScreamingFist]

“Wearing a white shirt and tie - won’t get you into heaven.”

LOL! Here is the zealots from a 1973 musical.....perhaps you should, look inside.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtpmZIdyRRM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[ScreamingFist]

well it wuzint, coyote done gone.