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Why Modern-Day Prophecy Theorists are More Dangerous than Harold Camping
American Vision ^ | May 23, 2011 | Gary DeMar

Posted on 05/23/2011 7:20:22 AM PDT by topcat54

How is it possible that most evangelical critics of Harold Camping are more dangerous than the failed prognosticator? For the simple reason that it’s no longer May 21, 2011, and Harold Camping will be relegated to the dust bin of prophetic history, but prophecy prognosticators will continue to abound by claiming that Jesus is still coming “soon” even if we don’t know the “day and hour.” In nearly every article I’ve read by evangelicals denouncing Camping, they still claim that all the signs are in place for Jesus’ “soon” return. Here are some examples:

Even though Tim LaHaye denounced Camping’s prediction as “not only wrong but dangerous . . . not only bizarre but 100% wrong!,” he still claims “that the recent earthquakes and tsunamis in Japan are signs of the apocalypse just as he laid out in” in his fiction end-time Left Behind novels.[1]

(Excerpt) Read more at americanvision.org ...


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: endtimes; eschatology; futurism; haroldcamping; prophecy
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To: FNU LNU; Westbrook
Gentlemen, I don’t argue that generation cannot refer to a “people group,” as I think it does in every case. However, “this generation” refers to the “people group” of the context (the Jews in Matthew) all living at the same time.

The phrase “this generation” (and its related uses) in the gospels always refers to the generation of Jews then living at the time of Jesus. That's the “plain sense” use.

We find a similar language – which was surely the model for Christ's words – in Deuteronomy:

'Surely not one of these men of this evil generation shall see that good land of which I swore to give to your fathers, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him and his children I am giving the land on which he walked, because he wholly followed the Lord.' (Deut. 1:35,36)
This was spoken of the generation who disobeyed the Lord and wandered in Sinai for 40 years till the guilty died off. They did not receive the blessing.
The LORD’s anger burned against Israel and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the whole generation of those who had done evil in his sight was gone. (Numbers 32:13)
It is not speaking of the entire race of Jewish people.

The parallel is obvious to what happened in AD70, when the generation who killed the son of the landowner were punished in the sack of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple. As we read:

Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matt. 23:36)

For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (Luke 21:22)


41 posted on 05/23/2011 5:55:46 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
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To: Westbrook
Yes, of course. There were great earthquakes in diverse places, the sun and the moon were darkened, the seas turned to blood, one third of all the vegetation in the Earth was destroyed, one third of all human life was destroyed, all the nations of the earth came up against Israel, the water became undrinkable, and if God hadn’t intervened all flesh would have been destroyed, all this happened before the people standing in front of Jesus passed away.

Yes, if you read the Bible Biblically, and simply evaluate the prophetic vocabulary the same way you do everywhere else in the Bible where it is used.

Yes, reading the Bible in terms of today's headlines is fun, and would be an entertaining parlor game it if weren't for the aborted careers and truncated lives left in its wake. However, reading the Bible in terms of the Bible leads to sanity, and eager victorious living for the glory of the King.

Post-mil folks tend to home-school their kids, and arrange their lives so that their grandchildren will be better off. One mother influenced by Camping took a knife to her throat -- after doing thus to her small daughters. A less spectacular, but even more devastating, crisis is upon us now -- and we have our heads so far up our prophetic fundaments that we can't read the writing on the wall. 80 to 90% of evangelical young people jump ship soon after leaving home. There is a remnant that stays the course -- home-schooling Calvinist families see 95% of their kids grow up to walk with God -- but the evangelical subculture is in a Gadarene nose-dive. And doesn't seem to care.

42 posted on 05/24/2011 4:52:12 AM PDT by it_rr (but the caravan moves along)
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To: it_ürür

The disasters Jesus described, and those described in His Revelation, are to be world wide, not local.

Do you believe the flood of Noah was local, too?

I don’t.

The Olivet Discourse (Matt 24, Mark 13) makes it clear, at least to me, that these things are world-wide, and that they occur over a long, but undefined, period of time. “And the gospel must first be published among all nations” (Mark 13:10) clearly had not happened yet when the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. What does “all” mean?

We homeschool our children, nine of whom are still at home with us, and we are hoping to make better lives for our grandchildren, of which we already have ten, so far.

I have no idea when the Lord is returning. Could be today. Could be hundreds of years from now. Jesus said, “No man knows.” Jesus said, “As a thief in the night.” That’s good enough for me.

We believe that, at the end of the World, the Lord will provide for His Church, either leading them into safety or pulling them out before things get really bad. I don’t pretend to know which, nor when.

But I’m not about to sell everything God has given me and give it to some huckster. If a man does not provide for his own family, he is worse than an infidel (1st Timothy 5:8).


43 posted on 05/24/2011 5:16:22 AM PDT by Westbrook (Having children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: Westbrook
We homeschool our children, nine of whom are still at home with us, and we are hoping to make better lives for our grandchildren, of which we already have ten, so far.

I am impressed, and very glad, that our teams are on the same side. All of our kids came by short cut (C-section), so we had to be content with four. The world will be a better place because of the children God has entrusted to us, and the grace He lavished upon us to raise them in His fear.

I think you will enjoy THIS SUMMARY of my MS thesis, which refuted the socialization myth 19 years ago.

I believe that the time claims of our Lord's prophecies make better sense if he ge is translated "The Land" (i.e. -- Israel) rather than "The Earth" (i.e. -- the whole globe). I take the first three verses of Revelation literally. If by "soon" and "at hand" and "quickly" Jesus meant 2,000+ years, I'd not send Him out for pizza!

Seriously, though, you are already operating in terms of a longer time horizon than the Camping folks. Give some thought to the possibility that God's Kingdom, Grace, and power are indeed able to progressively transform all of life as the Gospel is preached and lived -- and godly folks who take the Bible literally can rejoice in bigger hopes than Satan wants us to have.

44 posted on 05/24/2011 7:43:50 AM PDT by it_rr (but the caravan moves along)
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To: it_ürür

Regardless of our differences in eschatology, we are definitely on the same side.

There’s an old saying. “The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.”

There is also, “The meek shall inherit the earth.”

Thanks for the thesis on socialization.

When people ask us the inevitable, “What about socialization?”, I respond, “It depends on what kind of socialization you’re talking about.”

My kids are clearly socialized, but not with the same socialization practiced by the kids in the government school collectives.


45 posted on 05/24/2011 8:31:44 AM PDT by Westbrook (Having children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: topcat54; BibChr

This is a stupid article. As I understand this, everyone who teaches grace is guilty of causing sin...because there are those who abuse the teaching of grace.

TC, if you’re gonna post anti-premillenial material can you at least try to post something from someone with a brain?


46 posted on 05/24/2011 8:45:29 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain & proud of it: Truly Supporting the Troops means praying for their Victory!)
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To: xzins

Don’t tell me: without looking, I’m guessing it’s another lame attempt to link amill solipsist Harold Camping to folks with an actual, consistent, Biblical hermeneutic?


47 posted on 05/24/2011 8:58:12 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: BibChr

Not just a linking, but they say that the consistent bible hermeneutic is WORSE than Camping. Somehow, you and I are at fault for his idiocy. Sort of like banks are at fault for bank robbers.


48 posted on 05/24/2011 9:31:33 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain & proud of it: Truly Supporting the Troops means praying for their Victory!)
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To: xzins

Right.

Listen to Camping’s debate with Walvoord, available online. He was just a garden-variety amill at the time; but you can draw a straight line from Camping’s handling of the Bible then to his handling of the Bible now.

Walvoord, though perhaps not the sharpest scalpel on the tray, comes off pretty good so far (I’ve listened to around 3.5 hours ot of around 6).


49 posted on 05/24/2011 9:38:43 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: xzins
This is a stupid article. As I understand this, everyone who teaches grace is guilty of causing sin...because there are those who abuse the teaching of grace.

You clearly misread the article if you got that from it. Only those who abuse something, whether it be the doctrines of grace or eschatology, are responsible for their own sins.

TC, if you’re gonna post anti-premillenial material can you at least try to post something from someone with a brain?

Given the quality of the responses, or lack thereof, nothing more is really needed.

Besides, (speaking of using your brain) the issue is not premillennialism per se, it the highly aberrant form of dispensational premillennialism that teaches two separate Second Comings, one secret and one visible. In the dispensational scheme, anyone with a calendar who can count to seven can figure out the timing of the Second Coming part deux. It’s a date-setters delight.

50 posted on 05/24/2011 10:01:20 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: it_ürür

“Unlike you, when I call Jesus “Lord,” I do not cross my fingers behind my back and mutter, “Well, by ‘Lord’ what I really mean is ‘Guru,’ a domesticated, neutered, ineffectual personal spiritual adviser.” “

1. You don’t know me.

2. Strawman argument.

3. What is it in the “reformationist’s” water that gives them such misplaced intellectual haughtiness?


51 posted on 05/24/2011 10:15:57 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: topcat54

That’s just cornpone logic. Dispensational premil has no more to do with camping than charismatic worship has to do with jim jones. It’s just flimsy, specious attempts at guilt by association


52 posted on 05/24/2011 10:21:04 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain & proud of it: Truly Supporting the Troops means praying for their Victory!)
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To: xzins
That’s just cornpone logic.

Are we talking about dispensationalism here?

53 posted on 05/24/2011 10:29:38 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: Salvation

I have to say, coming from the standpoint of a evangelical that often argues with Catholics (as you might know), that does look like a rather interesting book.


54 posted on 05/24/2011 10:43:24 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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