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Are dinosaurs fossils really that old? [vanity]

Posted on 10/28/2011 6:39:41 AM PDT by Ancient Drive

I read that carbon dating method is only accurate for up to 30,000 yrs. So how are scientists coming up with millions yrs. old fossils? For all we know dinosaurs died off not millions but 100's of thousands of yrs ago.


TOPICS: Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: carbondating; creationism; dinosaurs; flintstones; givemeabreak; yabbadabbadoo; yec
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1 posted on 10/28/2011 6:39:45 AM PDT by Ancient Drive
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To: Ancient Drive
Chronometric Techniques Part II

:-)

2 posted on 10/28/2011 6:43:05 AM PDT by mewzilla (Forget a third party. We need a second one.)
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To: mewzilla

I am biased though, I’m of the belief in the six day creation deal :)


3 posted on 10/28/2011 6:46:21 AM PDT by Ancient Drive (DRINK COFFEE! - Do Stupid Things Faster with More Energy!)
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To: mewzilla; Ancient Drive
Actually, photos. We use time-machines and then photograph the dinosaurs and write a time-date stamp on the negative.

You have to realize that when you go backwards in time you lose your digital processors and it's all reactive silver plates from then on.

Fortunately dinos find silver distasteful so they keep their distance from us.

4 posted on 10/28/2011 6:46:31 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Ancient Drive

They were too big for the Ark...


5 posted on 10/28/2011 6:47:31 AM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: muawiyah

could they have died off in the flood?


6 posted on 10/28/2011 6:48:24 AM PDT by Ancient Drive (DRINK COFFEE! - Do Stupid Things Faster with More Energy!)
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To: Ancient Drive
Old-earthers use indirect methods to estimate the age of fossil-bearing rocks. However, it is worth pointing out that C-14 dating can and has been done with unfossilized material associated with coal mines and dinosaur fossils and other deep carbon samples, and consistently shows measurable C-14 (indicating an age of only thousands of years).

This leads to a further insight: if the bulk of the fossil record was buried only thousands of years ago, then the biomass in that record was part of the biosphere before that time. That means that C-14 produced back then was diluted amongst much greater amounts of C-12 than we have at present. And that means that current estimates of age using C-14 dating will be telescoped out several times too far. (For example, if 15/16's of the biomass of the earth were buried one C-14 half-life ago - around 5570 years ago - then any C-14 dating of samples from before that point will be off by a factor of 4 half-lives, or over 20,000 years).

7 posted on 10/28/2011 6:48:48 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (Daddy to Lily Ann, born 3:50 AM, 10/15/11, 9 lb/4 oz. of joy!)
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To: Ancient Drive

that would explain why we find them in sedimentary rock...


8 posted on 10/28/2011 6:49:09 AM PDT by Ancient Drive (DRINK COFFEE! - Do Stupid Things Faster with More Energy!)
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To: mewzilla
How much time is a "that"??

Or....a "cubit" is to 236.25 centillions as a "that" is to ????

9 posted on 10/28/2011 6:49:58 AM PDT by Logic n' Reason (N/A)
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To: muawiyah
Fortunately dinos find silver distasteful so they keep their distance from us.

Thank God for that, or you'd be dino-turds.
10 posted on 10/28/2011 6:50:36 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: SunkenCiv; decimon; Red Badger

Your expertise needed -ping


11 posted on 10/28/2011 6:50:36 AM PDT by sodpoodle (Cain - touching the better angels of our nature. Newt - knowledge is power.)
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To: Ancient Drive

If you had been watching the show Terra Nova, you would know. s/


12 posted on 10/28/2011 6:51:08 AM PDT by Deaf Smith
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To: Ancient Drive

Really? In just 144hours?


13 posted on 10/28/2011 6:52:31 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: Ancient Drive
that would explain why we find them in sedimentary rock...

But, how do they get inside the rocks?
14 posted on 10/28/2011 6:53:34 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Ancient Drive
could they have died off in the flood?

"And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female."

"Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive." - Genesis 6:19-20

Are you saying that Noah disobeyed God by not bringing dinosaurs onto the ark?

15 posted on 10/28/2011 6:54:24 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: Ancient Drive

They use other forms of radiometric dating for dating volcanic rocks above and below the rocks (rock layers) that fossils are found in.


16 posted on 10/28/2011 6:55:23 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Ancient Drive

I know dinosaurs never co-existed with man: you certainly would never see cave paintings of people chasing antelope with spears.

They’d all be of villages running in terror from Allosaurs and Tyrannosaurs.


17 posted on 10/28/2011 6:56:24 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Public employee unions are the barbarian hordes of our time.)
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To: Ancient Drive

How long does it take for the content of bone structure to be replaced by minerals, transforming it to rock? Well over six thousand years, that’s for sure. God created the universe in six days, but remember that when the prophets wrote the Bible there was no concept of geological ages. Days were easy for even the uneducated to understand.

Missing the message by dwelling on the minutia.


18 posted on 10/28/2011 6:56:52 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Ancient Drive

Are the two mutually exclusive? :-)


19 posted on 10/28/2011 6:57:21 AM PDT by mewzilla (Forget a third party. We need a second one.)
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To: Ancient Drive

“Radiometric dating (often called radioactive dating) is a technique used to date materials such as rocks, usually based on a comparison between the observed abundance of a naturally occurring radioactive isotope and its decay products, using known decay rates.[1] It is the principal source of information about the absolute age of rocks and other geological features, including the age of the Earth itself, and can be used to date a wide range of natural and man-made materials. Together with stratigraphic principles, radiometric dating methods are used in geochronology to establish the geological time scale.[2] Among the best-known techniques are radiocarbon dating, potassium-argon dating and uranium-lead dating. By allowing the establishment of geological timescales, it provides a significant source of information about the ages of fossils and the deduced rates of evolutionary change. Radiometric dating is also used to date archaeological materials, including ancient artifacts.

Different methods of radiometric dating vary in the timescale over which they are accurate and the materials to which they can be applied.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating


20 posted on 10/28/2011 6:58:37 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: muawiyah

Only in a culture that had strong racial memories could something like the Flintstones become a hit show. Hanna-Barbera just cashed in on it.

Freegards


21 posted on 10/28/2011 6:59:17 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: SoJoCo
Are you saying that Noah disobeyed God by not bringing dinosaurs onto the ark?

He'd have been nuts to include those Velociraptors!

22 posted on 10/28/2011 6:59:45 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: SoJoCo

The dinosaurs were atheists and didn’t come to him.

Thought they were too big to fail.


23 posted on 10/28/2011 7:00:47 AM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (REPEAL WASHINGTON! -- Islam Delenda Est! -- I Want Constantinople Back. -- Rumble thee forth.)
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To: Ancient Drive

“I am biased though, I’m of the belief in the six day creation deal :)”

Too boring for God the Multiverse complete with billions of years for the local universe to be in existence is far more interesting.

When the Bible was given to a early agrarian society how would God explain, Quantum Chromodynamics, Genetics, and so on. When dealing with children tell then fairy tales they can relate to to give the lesson. Think Santa Claus....


24 posted on 10/28/2011 7:00:54 AM PDT by Leto
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To: Ancient Drive

“I am biased though, I’m of the belief in the six day creation deal :)”


24 hours after God created an adult man, the man appears to be 30 years old even though he was created only 24 hours ago.

72 hours after creating a mountain range, the mountain appears to be hundreds of millions of years old even though it really is only 3 days old.


25 posted on 10/28/2011 7:01:37 AM PDT by CGalen
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To: Psycho_Bunny
running in terror from Allosaurs and Tyrannosaurs.

Interestingly, Allosaurs and Tyrannosaurs are separated more in time than Tyrannosaurs and humans. Allosaurs and Tyrannosaurs lived roughly 80 million years apart. T-Rexes and humans, ~64 million.

26 posted on 10/28/2011 7:02:22 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Ancient Drive

There are dozens of different isotopic and other dating methods, some of which, based on half life decay, are more accurate into the millions of years. A lot of ‘young earth’ sites like to blatantly confuse the reader by bringing up radiocarbon dating anytime radiometric dating is mentioned so they can say it isn’t accurate over 30K years (actually 60K but not the point here). Radiometric measurements can be accurate into the billions of years (in Uranium-Lead dating), Samarium-neodymium to about 20 million years, Potassium-argon at 1.3 billion years... etc.. and there are also

argon-argon (Ar-Ar)
iodine-xenon (I-Xe)
lanthanum-barium (La-Ba)
lead-lead (Pb-Pb)
lutetium-hafnium (Lu-Hf)
neon-neon (Ne-Ne)
rhenium-osmium (Re-Os)
uranium-lead-helium (U-Pb-He)
uranium-uranium (U-U)

Dating methods.

Don’t be deceived when some point out radiocarbon dating when talking about fossils. They are being purposefully deceptive.


27 posted on 10/28/2011 7:02:23 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: Ransomed

It became a hit because it was a satire and parody of family sit-coms common in the 50s and 60s.


28 posted on 10/28/2011 7:02:58 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Ransomed
Yabba
Dabba
Doo!
29 posted on 10/28/2011 7:03:52 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: Ancient Drive

Don’t they age fossils by the strata they’re in?


30 posted on 10/28/2011 7:04:03 AM PDT by steve8714 (Where there were two, now there's only me. When will I laugh again?)
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To: JimRed
No, no, no. Many on this forum will tell you that Dinos never existed, the earth is only 8000 years old and that fossils were placed in the ground by God to deceive you.
31 posted on 10/28/2011 7:04:37 AM PDT by eastforker
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To: Ancient Drive

This is a very deep subject.

I suggest you check out www.answersingenesis.com or www.icr.org

There are lots of info/points to a young earth (the idea of a young earth is usually linked with the veracity of dating methods).

I have several books that present the “other” side (i.e. the data they never tell you about that doe not agree with old earth). There is actually more data that points to a young earth than an old earth.

A lot of people think this is settled science, but it’s not. Neither is the method of the formation of the universe, the “particle” or physical method gravity uses, or where is the majority (apparently) of mass in the universe. (Dark Matter).

Of course, I will get deluged with “experts” who are confident they are right, but I want to point out that science texts older than a few years are outdated for a reason -— they “answers” keep changing (I mean, those “answers” that are not proven, are only theory). All the topics I have mentioned so far have THEORIES of formation, not facts. To be science we must

1) Observable
2) Repeatable

Note that topics like the distant age of the universe, formation, etc are therefore not open to “know” an answer, as they are neither observable nor repeatable.

Such topics ARE open to Theory. Unfortunately, modern science has devolved into a jobs/political program.


32 posted on 10/28/2011 7:04:38 AM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: muawiyah

“Actually, photos. We use time-machines and then photograph the dinosaurs and write a time-date stamp on the negative.
You have to realize that when you go backwards in time you lose your digital processors and it’s all reactive silver plates from then on.

Fortunately dinos find silver distasteful so they keep their distance from us”

I love it.


33 posted on 10/28/2011 7:04:57 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: mewzilla
Creation or Evolution? Yes!
34 posted on 10/28/2011 7:05:54 AM PDT by mewzilla (Forget a third party. We need a second one.)
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To: Ancient Drive

A. 1645 Dutch records in Albany, NY and corresponding Iroquois oral tradition written down speak of giant pterodactyl-like birds swooping down along the Mohawk River in the early 1600`s and snatching women and children from the banks. With the advent of Dutch-supplied muskets to the Mohawks, these stories quickly disappeared.[2 separate sources for the same phenomenon.]
-cf
O’Callaghan, E.B., ed., ``History of New Netherland,`` 2 vols., New York: D. Appleton and Company, 1848; The Reprint Company, Spartanburg, SC, 1966

B. Late 1890`s Deseret News has a front-page photo of 2 prospectors standing over the carcass of a giant ``serpent-bird`` in the Mojave.

C.Two friends of mine, Native American mother and daughter, were terrorized by a giant pterodactyl-like bird in remote eastern Texas flying over them in the early 1980`s. [cf. newspaper reports of other sightings in Texas.]


35 posted on 10/28/2011 7:07:47 AM PDT by bunkerhill7
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To: Psycho_Bunny

you certainly would never see cave paintings of people chasing antelope with spears. They’d all be of villages running in terror from Allosaurs and Tyrannosaurs.”

Well, maybe. But the interesting thing is that even if we did find such cave paintings, it would not be deemed evidence that men and dinos co-existed, because, as we all know.....that is impossible.


36 posted on 10/28/2011 7:08:34 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: Psycho_Bunny

“Uranium-lead is one of the oldest[1] and most refined of the radiometric dating schemes, with a routine age range of about 1 million years to over 4.5 billion years, and with routine precisions in the 0.1-1 percent range.[2] The method relies on two separate decay chains, the uranium series from 238U to 206Pb, with a half-life of 4.47 billion years and the actinium series from 235U to 207Pb, with a half-life of 704 million years. These decay routes occur via a series of alpha (and beta) decays, in which 238U with daughter nuclides undergo eight total alpha and six beta decays whereas 235U with daughters only experience seven alpha and four beta decays.[3]

The existence of two ‘parallel’ uranium-lead decay routes (238U to 206Pb and 235U to 207Pb) leads to multiple dating techniques within the overall U-Pb system. The term ‘U-Pb dating’ normally implies the coupled use of both decay schemes in the ‘concordia diagram’ (see below). However, use of a single decay scheme (usually 238U to 206Pb) leads to the U-Pb isochron dating method, analogous to the rubidium-strontium dating method. Finally, ages can also be determined from the U-Pb system by analysis of Pb isotope ratios alone. This is termed the lead-lead dating method. Clair Cameron Patterson, an American geochemist who pioneered studies of uranium-lead radiometric dating methods, is famous for having used it to obtain one of the earliest accurate estimates of the age of the Earth.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium-lead_dating


37 posted on 10/28/2011 7:09:22 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: CGalen

Mountain formation can occur relatively quickly. Some form, rising very quickly (research how islands form overnight in the ocean from uprising).

The fact that even on very tall supposedly billions of year old mountains are found sea shells from recent geological periods should cause the open minded to realize that large movement have occurred in the past.

Geological changes do NOT take place evenly, but rather in fit/starts (cataclysmic forces at play). So I don’t think the existence of mountains is evidence for an old earth anyway!


38 posted on 10/28/2011 7:09:42 AM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: Psycho_Bunny

Sorry, PB. Meant to reply to another post on this thread.


39 posted on 10/28/2011 7:10:07 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Ancient Drive
We used to hunt pterodactyls in Texas when I was a kid...

40 posted on 10/28/2011 7:10:57 AM PDT by evets (beer)
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To: JimRed

How would you even know what a day was, if God hadn’t created the Sun until Day 4?


41 posted on 10/28/2011 7:11:13 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Ancient Drive
I read that carbon dating method is only accurate for up to 30,000 yrs. So how are scientists coming up with millions yrs. old fossils?

I doubt that the carbon dating method is accurate even for the 30,000 years. There are many uniformitarian assumptions in the method and all are questionable, IMHO.

Dino fossils are dated by the rock layers the fossils are found in. The rock layers are dated by the fossils they contain. If this seems like circular reasoning to you, that is because it is circular reasoning.

ML/NJ

42 posted on 10/28/2011 7:11:26 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: Ancient Drive

Don’t worry about it. Time is something they made up just to get you through your day.


43 posted on 10/28/2011 7:11:32 AM PDT by bigheadfred (wogga wogga)
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To: bunkerhill7

You might want to inform your two Indian friends that smoking that Peyote sh&^%$%t does strange things to the mind.


44 posted on 10/28/2011 7:12:26 AM PDT by eastforker
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To: stuartcr

Really


45 posted on 10/28/2011 7:12:52 AM PDT by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: SoJoCo

And what about the SWIMMING dinosaurs? The flood wouldn’t have bothered them a bit.


46 posted on 10/28/2011 7:13:44 AM PDT by jrg
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To: evets
We used to hunt pterodactyls in Texas when I was a kid...

A pterodactyl bit my sister once.
47 posted on 10/28/2011 7:15:34 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

There have been legends about things that sound a lot like dino’s among the Plains Indians.

Heard a few growing up, and there have been some cave paintings of “dragons”. In fact, there was one in Illinois.


48 posted on 10/28/2011 7:16:06 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: CGalen

The Bible does not say that God created Adam as a child, He created him as a man.

God can create maountain ranges that ‘appear’ any way He desires. And the ‘appearance’ is only what we perceive or interpret anyway.

Lean not into your own understanding, only have faith.


49 posted on 10/28/2011 7:16:21 AM PDT by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: jrg

We still got swimming dino’s, they are called gars and grennels.


50 posted on 10/28/2011 7:16:30 AM PDT by eastforker
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