Posted on 11/25/2011 6:55:10 AM PST by marshmallow
Tens of thousands wait for hours in freezing temperatures to kiss belt that Christians believe was worn by Jesus' mother
MOSCOW — Braving freezing cold temperatures and ice-covered sidewalks, tens of thousands of Russians stood in line Wednesday to see and kiss a newly arrived relic of the Virgin Mary in Russia's largest Orthodox cathedral.
The Virgin Mary's Cincture, a belt that Christians believe was worn by Jesus' mother, was brought to Russia last month from Mount Athos, a monastic community in Greece.
Kissing the relic, which is encased in an ornamental box, is believed to help barren women conceive and heal other ailments.
The line of people, mostly women, waiting to enter the golden-domed Christ the Savior Cathedral stretched for 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) along the Moscow River despite temperatures that dropped to below minus 5 Celsius (23 Fahrenheit).
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
THe only YOPIS in actions where the ones pushing the idol worship
If you are accusing other Christians of “worshiping idols”, you are bearing false witness against your brothers.
Worry about your own soul instead of your neighbor, whom you see as steeped in vice.
Start with knowledge opens doors right? With the right knowledge you can become a lawyer or whatever. Knowledge will help you get into places while lack of knowledge will lock you out. The keys to that knowledge are books, writings and teaching.
In Old Testament times when the Jews made a mad a doctor of the law he received the key to the closet in the temple where they kept the sacred books and the tablets to write on. Those books contained the laws of the Jews. Thus the reference in Luke.
Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
They were keeping the information that God had commanded away from the people and were only teaching the portions of the law they found benefited the elite and helped them maintain superiority over the people. A reference to that can be found in Matthew 23 when Jesus accused them of doing the external things but not teaching the spiritual truths.
The binding and loosing also comes from Jewish customs. The priests could declare a person unfit for fellowship with the people. If the person was not following the laws of God they could be “bound” or kept out of the gatherings. They also considered that what they “bound” on earth was also “bound” in heaven because they were the keepers of the law that God had given them. That’s the context of the verse in 2 Thessalonians.
2 Thessalonians: 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
Christ had given all the information or “knowledge” for New Testament believers to the Apostles thus the statement in Matthew.
Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
The Apostles had been taught the New Testament teachings of grace and forgiveness that gave the people life eternal in heaven. That information was considered the “key” to heaven. The Apostles had been given that “key” and just like the Old Testament Jewish “lawyer” they were empowered to teach those and could declare someone who didn’t believe or taught falsely “bound” and not fit for fellowship with believers. That person would also be considered “bound” in heaven also.
Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
My brothers have the Spirit , they know not to bow down to idols.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
We do NOT have access to the “people of heaven”. We have access to the “Throne of God” but communication with those no longer living on this earth has always been forbidden. Witness that even the Apostles were not allowed to speak to Moses and Elijah who appeared with Jesus.
>> and I will give you the right of access among those who are standing here.<<
The right of access among those, the same access as they have, you will be one of those. Not access “to” those.
>> Rom. 8:35-39 - therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death.<<
That is totally injecting a meaning that is not in Romans 8.
Romans 8:35-39 simply says that nothing will separated us from the love of Christ. Nothing about communicating with those who have left this earth.
>> Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus converses with "deceased" Moses and Elijah. They are more alive than the saints on earth.<<
You did notice that Jesus was “transformed” and that the disciples were not allowed to speak with them right?
Your entire post that you propose as proof is total conjecture. Yes those who have gone on to heaven are “alive” but we are not instructed to communicate with them in any way shape or form. In fact, the only time contact with departed souls is talked about in scripture it is condemned.
Gal 1:20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.
Paul was a persecutor of Christ through the persecution of His followers. That he was now a convert created suspicion among those to whom he was preaching. There were those who came among them as spies to turn them over to the authorities.
It was important that he be authenticated as having the same commission and message as that of Peter and the others since they had walked with Jesus and Paul had not.
Paul had to show that what he preached was from Jesus and not from Peter and the others. Apostolic imprimatur was crucial to the reception of Paul as well as the message.
As for the revelation he went to Jerusalem to share, it was concerning circumcision of Gentile converts.
Gal 2:4 This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5 We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
Paul had begun teaching that Gentiles did not have to be circumcised but others were disputing that saying the Gentiles had to be circumcised to be saved. Paul goes to Jerusalem to confirm that what he was teaching was true.
Gal 2:2 I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain.
Accepting that Jesus had revealed this to Paul, Peter pronounces that it would be a burden to require circumcision for the Gentiles. Paul testifies to the works God has done among the Gentiles. Upon hearing what Peter had to say and hearing the testimony of Paul and Barnabas, James agrees also and calls for a letter to be written and read in Antioch.
The letter says in it:Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Paul receives from the others verification of what he is teaching. Now, in Galatians when Paul is writing of this event and the council, he says that he did not need to have God’s approval, but he needed that of “those held in high esteem”, those whose opinion was acceptable and binding on the followers of the Way.
6 As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message. 7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised,[a] just as Peter had been to the circumcised.[b] 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9 James, Cephas[c] and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. 10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.
No where here does Paul say that he has a different gospel from that of Peter and the others. He only says that they, Cephas and John recognized that he had received the grace to preach to the Gentiles.
When I read this I see the Church at work exactly as it works now. Glory be to God.
Exodus 20:4-6 4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
What Catholics as a whole seem to miss is that these verses don't say not to worship them although that is what is implied, but we are not to bow down to images.
The first thing Catholics do is deny that they worship the images, but if you watch, in any Catholic church, you DO see people bowing down before them, like when they're lighting candles to them representing the prayers they are praying to them.
Why wouldn't Christ just send Paul to the 12 for instruction? Why wouldn't Christ give Peter the information that he would teach Paul? As a matter of fact, why wasn't Paul just made the 12th Disciple, instead of Matthias?
Acts 9:26: "And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples; bu they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple." Why the fear? Why didn't Christ speak to Peter the way he spoke to Paul and tell Peter that Paul was a chosen vessel unto Him? THe Disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, what they bound on earth was bound in heaven, what they loosed on earth was loosed in heaven. They would have had confirmation of Paul's revelations from the risen Christ, had Christ chosen to reveal it to them. Yet we read:
"And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance; AND SAW HIM SAYING UNTO ME, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will NOT RECEIVE THY TESTIMONY CONCERNING ME". Acts 22:17,18.
This was Paul's first return to Jerusalem after his conversion. The Lord appeared to Paul again, commanding him to depart from Jerusalem because his testimony to Israel would now be futile. What had made his testimony to Israel futile? Something changed. Peter and the 11 were told to stay REMAIN IN JERUSALEM. Paul was told to quickly depart Jerusalem. Hmmmm....Obviously THEY were performing something HE wasn't part of...and vise-versa.
Seriously in deep pray God shows there is nothing wrong. The more I pray while reading or not God holds up a scripture in my minds eye at times. That is the main scripture verses shown by The Holy Spirit. This I know my friend without a doubt.
ALSO: You use the Word Transformed. Just remember those Apostles were transformed After The Day of Pentecost in the book of Acts.
Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus converses with "deceased" Moses and Elijah. They are more alive than the saints on earth.
"You did notice that Jesus was “transformed” and that the disciples were not allowed to speak with them right?"
Yes! This event was before Pentecost. So the Apostles were transformed with THe Holy Spirit on Pentecost day.
My Mother was a devout Catholic Christian I left the Church for Indy Churches at the time. I understand your side of the argument I use to believe it too. But through the Holy Spirit. And taking my Mother to Mass the Holy Spirit showed the Bible verses for each step in the Mass. Praying is asking for pray not summoning up spirits like Occultic practices. I know it without a doubt. Praise Jesus to you!
Freeper Regards!
“I know from He who is within us.” Correction HE in capital letter.
Exodus 20:16 “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”
>>Just remember those Apostles were transformed After The Day of Pentecost in the book of Acts.<<
No they were not. They were filled with the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus before He ascended. He promised them the “comforter” would come and that is what happened. In no way were they transfigured as Jesus was. Making stuff up as the RCC does will always fall in light of the true scriptures.
>>Yes! This event was before Pentecost. So the Apostles were transformed with THe Holy Spirit on Pentecost day.<<
Preposterous! Lying about what scripture says is dangerous and a clear indication that the spirit you claim to be listening to is absolutely not the Holy Spirit sent to the Apostles.
Do not accuse me of lying! Your theology is a bit off. I know my Savoir ! I know you mean well but do some real prayering then you will know.
If someone tells you that a fellow Christian worships idols, they are lying to you. Any one who repeats that lie, participates in it.
And that makes Satan very happy.
Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
Do you see where it says not to set up any image ?
See the part right next to it about bowing down ?
I think it makes Satan very happy when people do these things because by doing them they are not making our CREATOR happy since he tells us not to do it over and over again in his WORD.
Why are you trying to play it off as if the people who do this are the victim ? You know Cain tried to play the victim after he killed his brother too.
Bowing down is bowing down !
The commands in Scripture concerning idols are to not bow down to them. It doesn’t say to not worship them. So your contention about worship is meaningless because it doesn’t address the Scripture references.
Misquoting Scripture is one of Satan’s favorite tactics.
. Images and Statues
Deut. 4:15 - from this verse, Protestants say that since we saw “no form” of the Lord, we should not make graven images of Him.
Deut. 4:16 - of course, in early history Israel was forbidden to make images of God because God didn’t yet reveal himself visibly “in the form of any figure.”
Deut. 4:17-19 - hence, had the Israelites depicted God not yet revealed, they might be tempted to worship Him in the form of a beast, bird, reptile or fish, which was a common error of the times.
Exodus 3:2-3; Dan 7:9; Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32; Acts 2:3- later on, however, we see that God did reveal himself in visible form (as a dove, fire, etc).
Deut. 5:8 - God’s commandment “thou shall not make a graven image” is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be used in worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be worshiped.
Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31 - for example, God commands the making of the image of a golden cherubim. This heavenly image, of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image disposes their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God.
Num. 21:8-9 - God also commands the making of the bronze serpent. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind to the supernatural.
I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 - Solomon’s temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship.
2 Kings 18:4 - it was only when the people began to worship the statue did they incur God’s wrath, and the king destroyed it. The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images.
1 Chron. 28:18-19 - David gives Solomon the plan for the altar made of refined gold with a golden cherubim images. These images were used in the Jews’ most solemn place of worship.
2 Chron. 3:7-14 - the house was lined with gold with elaborate cherubim carved in wood and overlaid with gold.
Ezek. 41:15 - Ezekiel describes graven images in the temple consisting of carved likenesses of cherubim. These are similar to the images of the angels and saints in many Catholic churches.
Col. 1:15 - the only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the “image” (Greek “eikon”) of the invisible God.
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