Calvinism's Similarities to Islam

http://www.freewill-predestination.com/islam.html ^ | David Bennett

[HossB86]

Calvinism and Islam both have a similar legalistic streak and reject the role of reason.

Aside from the sheer laughability of this, the one thing that DOES stand out to me is that the Roman Catholic Church tends to identify with Muslims and Islam FAR more than Protestants:

"The Church’s relationship with Muslims. The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841, quoting Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964)." The quote taken from justforcatholics.org. Emphasis mine.

Any plain reading of the Koran shows that the Muslims do NOT worship the Triune God. In fact, they worship Satan, no? Yet, the above quoted text would indicate something pretty terrible if you're a Roman Catholic... something terrible like Roman Catholics worship the same god they do.

Pretty sad if you ask me.

The "plan of salvation" is God's plan through His only begotten son Jesus Christ... someone the Muslims deny as being God. I think the Roman Catholic Church needs to rethink their friends.

Hoss

[aruanan]

IBTZ. Calvinism as similar to islam is a stretch.

Not the theology relating to the will of God.

[Misterioso]

Calvinism and Islam both have a similar legalistic streak and both reject the role of reason in faith.

Spectacular context drop. What "role" does reason have in faith? Reason rejects faith.

[Hayride]

I’m not a Calvinist but Charles Spurgeon could and Paul Washer can bring the lumber to the pulpit.

I suppose you personal feelings on predestination don’t really matter if you get out there and try to win souls like these guys. However, I’d think predestination beliefs might lend a person to being lazy about witnessing. If God has already selected someone surely they’ll have some sort of “Road to Damascus” moment, right?

[svcw]

THX 1138 delusion place marker

[narses]

Of course - and I am sure you didn't know this - an honest reading of that section of the Catechism would acknowledge that it is headed:

"The Church and non-Christians"

Now that you KNOW this, perhaps you can remember to mention that fact when you post misleading excerpts?

[narses]

Reason rejects faith.

Thus saith the agnostic, the atheist and the pagan. What does a Catholic believe?

Pope reemphasizes relationship between faith and reason, cites example of St. Thomas Aquinas

Authentic Christian faith does not limit human liberty and reason, he said. Instead, "faith supports reason and perfection; and reason, illuminated by faith, finds strength to raise itself to the knowledge of God."

[muawiyah]

Now that we know that the Quran was put together from an Aramaic language Christian missionary's guide to converting the Arabs at Mecca, an anomalous Torah based on a slightly different understanding of Jewish history, and a variety of pagan materials from which the paganism was redacted to make them look more like a monotheistic revelation ~ we really can't use ANY statements in it to prove or disprove anything about it or another religious movement related or unrelated.

In short, you can't quote sh*t to prove sn*t.

[RnMomof7]

Just stupid... the only similarity is Rome killed protestants and muslims

[muawiyah]

Recent archaeological work by the Saudi government revealed the Kaaba to have been an Hindu temple. They've even figured out which god(s) were originally worshipped at the site.

More likely the Moslem theologians behind the Koran got much of their beliefs from that tradition (which also has a full array of stories stemming from the days of Noah).

[HossB86]

Now that you KNOW this, perhaps you can remember to mention that fact when you post misleading excerpts?

Re-try those blazing reading skills that you profess to have and note that the quote came from justforcatholics.org

If you would try reading there, you'd note that there was NO heading listed as "the Church and non-Christians" -- instead, and oddly, it was under the grouping of paragraph called, The Catholic Position.

Before you start spewing... stuff, try actually noting from where the quote is pulled before you accuse me of something that I did not do.

Nice try, but a HUGE fail.

Hoss

[redgolum]

In all honesty, the article is correct. There where many Calvinist’s that “went Turk” back in the day. Some because of trade (so they could get places they couldn’t other wise). Some because of being forced, but many because of the similarities.

There are VAST differences, but look at where Geneva was starting to head even in the time of Calvin. There were some who wanted to dump the Trinity already.

[narses]

Hence my giving you the benefit of the doubt. I have no doubt a bigotry ridden site would fail to provide context. But the quote, while you grabbed it from that hatefilled site, was actually from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Freely available to all and you could have looked. Now you KNOW the truth and I am sure you will not knowingly post misleading and incomplete quotes from the Catechism in an effort to impugn the Catholic faith. Right?

[ckilmer]

The American constitution was written by Calvinists. These were Madison and his friends.

They were concerned about limiting government and they wanted a separation and balance of powers.. Why? They knew something about the human heart.

[redgolum]

One has to wonder if someone has read the words of Jesus and accepted Him as Lord and Savior would that person go around advocating the chopping off of limbs for any reason?

Considering the time, this is funny. It was a very common thing, in Catholic and non Catholic kingdoms. In fact, just getting your arm chopped off was pretty mild for most places!

[fungoking]

He was predestined to post this, he had no choice.

[muawiyah]

The Bedouins are not central to the Arabic identity, but peripheral. The very first semites the Sumerians encountered were far from being wandering herdsmen.

In fact, the Sumerians were the ones who had been wandering herdsmen when they built the first cities along the banks of the Euphrates, invented writing and most of the features of civilization.

Some say the term "arab" meant, in Sumerian, or maybe Dravidian, "thief" ~ it goes back that far.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

IBTZ

[HossB86]

Hence you do no such thing.

What does the Catechism say? Who cares what the "heading" is? Did you READ the text? Do you agree with it? Do Muslims worship the same God as you do?

Do they? Do you?

A simple "Yes" or "No" would suffice.

But, since you MUST accept the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church's Catechism, then you must agree, right?

Do Muslims believe is the one true living God? I think not.

I do think that leaves you (and all Roman Catholics) in a bit of a quandary.

Hoss

[muawiyah]

The Peace of Westphalia ~ a series of treaties promulgated in the mid 1600s which ended the 30 Years War AND established the basis of the modern nation state.

European people promised to never again go to war against each other on account of religion.

This was the beginning of a more permanent and rational Religious Tolerance in the West.

Think of it as having built on the principles set forth in the Edict of Nantes and the Treaty of London (1604).

These treaties were signed by the Pope, leaders of Catholic countries, leaders of Protestant countries and Protestant leaders.

Here's what is important about these treaties today ~ they were NOT signed by Jews, Moslems, Christian Orthodox, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists or Zen Buddhists, nor by Communists.