Posted on 12/15/2011 10:14:12 AM PST by Cronos
The typical member of the churches of Christ don’t know about these creeds and those who do could not care less about them. They don’t place any importance on the creeds of men. They accept the responsibility of discerning what the Bible teaches themselves instead of relying on some man or group of men to figure it out for them.
does the typical member of the churches of Christ believe it is Biblical to be baptized by an unbaptized elder or minister?
the reason i ask is if the church was “restored” in the 19th century, that means there were no Christians on earth before then. if that was the case, who was able to baptize the first member of the “restored” church of Christ?
I went to the Bible Book Store today. I didn’t see any of the authors you mentioned, just the ones I listed.
Didn’t see any CofC authors there at all except Max Lucado and his powder puff books.
I was listening to a CofC radio question and answer program years ago when an old man called in and raised a commotion because his CofC church choir started their singing with someone blowing a pitch pipe. He went ballistic on this “music in the church” and ranted on and on about it.
This is typical of taking irrelevant things and making them major doctrines in so called Restoration churches.
***But! Church of Christ make great neighbors as they believe that they must work out their salvation.***
It is hard to believe that the early Presbyterian mountain people fell to these “Works for salvation” frauds. I had a CofC preacher tell me that a going to heaven or hell depends on the believer’s state of mind at the time of death, and a believer could go through a state of being saved or lost many times a day depending on their mental attitude.
Jesus paid the down payment on salvation at the cross, now YOU have to make up the difference.
Frightening!
Oddly enough, quoting scripture....
***Philippians 2:12 12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, ****
And completely ignoring the more persuasive argument in Ephesians 2:8,9
For by Grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works lest any man should boast.
When faced with verses like this the CofC always go to the more legalistic passage. Comparing Paul and James, they always take James even though Paul wrote more on the subject.
**does the typical member of the churches of Christ believe it is Biblical to be baptized by an unbaptized elder or minister?****
I remember listening to Basel Barret Baxter many years ago and he always ended his TV show with the request that people go the CofC and be baptized by immersion for remission of sin.
Then he would say..”If there is not a CofC near you a friend can baptize you.”
And I used to think, what if that friend was a satanist or mormon or JW and secretly considered the person being baptized in the name of the satanist church.
After all, it would seem to me that a person doing the baptizing should be authorized to baptize, just like a person marrying a couple needs to be authorized to perform marriages.
I have a terminal illness. I am so grateful that I have the assurance that I will be worshiping at the feet of Jesus. How does one live or die without that belief?
this is a question i always wondered about.
think about what the coC teaches, there were NO Christians on earth for over 1,000 years before the 19th century.
so whoever finally “restored” the church ( Campbell? )would have to be baptized according to their doctrine. ok, fair enough. now, who was able to baptize him? after all, everyone in the NT was baptized by a baptized believer already. so unless, Jesus Christ appeared to him and baptized him, who did or could?
The typical member of the churches of Christ don’t know about these creeds and those who do could not care less about them. They don’t place any importance on the creeds of men. They accept the responsibility of discerning what the Bible teaches themselves instead of relying on some man or group of men to figure it out for them.
That's not really relevant to my question. I phrased my question the way I did knowing that those creeds would have no official force.
Is anything asserted by the Apostles', Nicene and Athanasian creeds, denied by CoC teaching?
Gee, and I thought the Creed represented things in the Bible.
“Would CoC members affirm the content of the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed? What statements, if any, would be denied?”
I haven’t studied those creeds, Lee. They may be well thought-out formulations for all I know. But I see no reason why I shouldn’t just stick to the scriptures themselves. I don’t see how anything else can improve on God’s perfect revelation.
Nicene Creed |
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I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen. |
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“I went to the Bible Book Store today. I didn’t see any of the authors you mentioned, just the ones I listed.”
That may say more about the book store you went to than whether the men I mentioned are Biblical scholars are not. You can do a search engine search on them and decide for yourself. I mentioned them in response to an earlier post of yours on this thread, as I think you may recall.
“Didn’t see any CofC authors there at all except Max Lucado and his powder puff books.”
I don’t care much for Lucado’s books myself. But each to his own.
any thoughts on the question i posed in post #102?
***That may say more about the book store you went to than whether the men I mentioned are Biblical scholars are not.***
Now I think of it, I have NEVER seen any CofC literature or books in any Bible Book Store or secular book store I have ever been in.
I had a CofC FReeper on here several years ago who claimed that Campbellites had no publishing house. I promptly gave him the web address of just a publishing house.
He also claimed he had never heard of V E Howard (My friends, are you listening?) or A G Hobbs. so I showed him their web pages.
It also appears that the authors you gave me (Ferguson, Lewis, Thompson) are publishing for CofC consumption, or preaching to the choir, not general Christendom.
“any thoughts on the question i posed in post #102?:
“does the typical member of the churches of Christ believe it is Biblical to be baptized by an unbaptized elder or minister? the reason i ask is if the church was “restored” in the 19th century, that means there were no Christians on earth before then. if that was the case, who was able to baptize the first member of the “restored” church of Christ?”
My guess as to a “typical member” would obviously have to be based upon the congregations of churches of Christ I have visited and members I have talked to. First, I have never heard of an unbaptized elder or minister. Second, one does not have to be baptized by an elder of minister. Third, I don’t remember any member having told me that one must be baptized by anyone in particular (though some may believe that). My own belief is that it doesn’t matter who baptizes one; the importantnt thing is that one be baptized.
“It also appears that the authors you gave me (Ferguson, Lewis, Thompson) are publishing for CofC consumption, or preaching to the choir, not general Christendom.”
Check the publishing houses again, de Bivar. The works of these authors would be found in the academic section in almost any major Bible store (except the one you appear to frequent).
By the way, do you belong to any organized group of believers?
Regards.
thank you for your reply.
i have heard many coC ministers teach that one of the hallmarks of the coC is that it follows the NT and practices what the church did in the NT.
if that is so, wasn’t everyone baptized after Pentecost baptized by another person who was baptized?
is it Scritural to have a non-Christian baptize a Christian?
by whose authority does the non-Christian baptize?
this is the problem you run into if someone wishes to claim the church needed to be “restored” and there were no Christians on earth for over 1,000 years before the 19th century.
Where a denomination is discernible from another simply by the organization of the church’s administration and management, while adhering to orthodox basic tenets/doctrines of Christianity, IMHO, there isn’t anything inconsistent with Scriptural definitions of the Body of Christ denying that membership.
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