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Kenneth Copeland; Tongues as Languages Not Learned etc
That curious, mystifying space between Quix's ears | 9 MAR 2012 | Quix

Posted on 03/09/2012 10:46:28 AM PST by Quix

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Such experiences have been observed off and on over most of my 65 year old life.

Those who have such experiences are like the blind man Christ healed:

John 9:

New Living Translation (©2007)

The Pharisees asked the man all about it. So he told them, "He put the mud over my eyes, and when I washed it away, I could see!"

Some of the Pharisees said, "This man Jesus is not from God, for he is working on the Sabbath." Others said, "But how could an ordinary sinner do such miraculous signs?" So there was a deep division of opinion among them.

Then the Pharisees again questioned the man who had been blind and demanded, "What's your opinion about this man who healed you?" The man replied, "I think he must be a prophet."

The Jewish leaders still refused to believe the man had been blind and could now see, so they called in his parents. 19 They asked them, “Is this your son? Was he born blind? If so, how can he now see?”

20 His parents replied, “We know this is our son and that he was born blind, 21 but we don’t know how he can see or who healed him. Ask him. He is old enough to speak for himself.” 22 His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who had announced that anyone saying Jesus was the Messiah would be expelled from the synagogue. 23 That’s why they said, “He is old enough. Ask him.”

24 So for the second time they called in the man who had been blind and told him, “God should get the glory for this,[b] because we know this man Jesus is a sinner.”

25 “I don’t know whether he is a sinner,” the man replied. “But I know this: I was blind, and now I can see!”

26 “But what did he do?” they asked. “How did he heal you?”

27 “Look!” the man exclaimed. “I told you once. Didn’t you listen? Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?”

28 Then they cursed him and said, “You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses! 29 We know God spoke to Moses, but we don’t even know where this man comes from.”

30 “Why, that’s very strange!” the man replied. “He healed my eyes, and yet you don’t know where he comes from? 31 We know that God doesn’t listen to sinners, but he is ready to hear those who worship him and do his will. 32 Ever since the world began, no one has been able to open the eyes of someone born blind. 33 If this man were not from God, he couldn’t have done it.”

34 “You were born a total sinner!” they answered. “Are you trying to teach us?” And they threw him out of the synagogue.

Spiritual Blindness

35 When Jesus heard what had happened, he found the man and asked, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?[c]”

36 The man answered, “Who is he, sir? I want to believe in him.”

37 “You have seen him,” Jesus said, “and he is speaking to you!”

38 “Yes, Lord, I believe!” the man said. And he worshiped Jesus.

39 Then Jesus told him,[d] “I entered this world to render judgment—to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see[e] that they are blind.”

40 Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, “Are you saying we’re blind?”

41 “If you were blind, you wouldn’t be guilty,” Jesus replied. “But you remain guilty because you claim you can see.

.

None are so blind as those who REFUSE to see--always for all the 'right,' 'honorable,' 'Biblical' reasons. . . . just like the Religious rulers who had the Bible memorized 2000 years ago.

I say again:

God is Holy!
He is not prissy.

BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO COME IN THE NAME OF THE LORD . . .

Trusting Him, obeying Him, doing the works that He did and enables us to do, by His Spirit.

1 posted on 03/09/2012 10:46:36 AM PST by Quix
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To: Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; auggy; ...

END TIMES PING LIST PING

plus a few other friends and loved ones.

BTW, for those who missed it earlier . . . here’s

Curry Blake’s series . . . his course on healing:

http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/Healing/JGL/JGL_Ministries.htm


2 posted on 03/09/2012 10:51:03 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

I have heard many times of people speaking in tongues, this is the first I’ve heard of there being someone who understood such speaking as being in their own language.


3 posted on 03/09/2012 11:04:44 AM PST by null and void (Day 1144 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: null and void

I’ll relate again another from a dear friend in the Pacific NW.

She went on a tour to visit half a dozen or so Native American tribes as a kind of mission outreach.

At the closing of her time with 3 DIFFERENT tribes, while a tribal leader was praying over their shared time, she was praying quietly in tongues more or less under her breath but loud enough for someone standing nearby to hear her.

In EACH of those 3 DIFFERENT TRIBES WITH 3 DIFFERENT LANGUAGES, after the ending of the ending prayer time, an old timer in the tribe who’d been standing near my friend, spoke up and asked her “Where did you learn the more eloquent, [archaic] form of our language? You gave a flawless summary of the Gospel story in the old, seldom used, more formal form of our language.”

My friend had no idea she’d been speaking their language at all. She was just doing her usual of praying in tongues as she had ran out of things to pray in English.


4 posted on 03/09/2012 11:11:17 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

Thanks!


5 posted on 03/09/2012 11:16:52 AM PST by null and void (Day 1144 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: Quix

I don’t have any problem believing that tongues are a gift from God.

It’s Biblical.

I do have a problem with accepting almost anything that Kenneth Copeland teaches.

He has taught many many falsehoods over the years.


6 posted on 03/09/2012 11:34:15 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Quix
So here's the question.

When the Apostles "spoke in tongues," was it that all understood what was said, or that they actually spoke all opf those languages. I go with explanation (A). That is, the Apostles spoke and that each of the multitude heard what they said in their own language. Is it creditable that they spoke all of those tongues simultaneously?

7 posted on 03/09/2012 11:45:37 AM PST by Kenny Bunk ((So, you're telling me Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and Roberts can't figure out this eligibility stuff?))
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To: fishtank

I don’t know many who haven’t taught some falsehoods

in any denomination.


8 posted on 03/09/2012 11:50:52 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Kenny Bunk

In terms of Holy Spirit’s capacity?

YES! It’s exceedingly credible.

Besides

The BIBLE SAYS

“spoke in . . . “

NOT

“heard . . . “


9 posted on 03/09/2012 11:52:07 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: fishtank

Kenneth Copeland is a heretic, and many of his teachings are heretical.


10 posted on 03/09/2012 11:54:21 AM PST by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from evil, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: Kenny Bunk
IT'S NEVER WISE

TO MEASURE

GOD ALMIGHTY

OR

HIS WAYS

BY
MAN'S STANDARDS,
MAN'S SENSIBILITIES,
MAN'S 'LOGIC,'
MAN'S NOTIONS,
MAN'S EXPERIENCES,
MAN'S HABITS,
MAN'S CULTURE,
MAN'S DOCTRINES,
MAN'S DOGMA,
MAN'S COMFORT ZONES,
MAN'S BRILLIANCE,
MAN'S IGNORANCE,
MAN'S KNOWLEDGE,
MAN'S ANYTHING.

One would think Christianity had

learned

from the example of the Pharisees.

Evidently not.

11 posted on 03/09/2012 11:57:34 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

...another outstanding gem for my collection of ‘great posts’...


12 posted on 03/09/2012 12:01:06 PM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Jmouse007

More so than you are?

For whatever reason, God still sees fit to use him.

Evidently God has a different perspective on his flaws, sins, heresies than you do.

Not that God excuses any such per se . . . just that He ranks things differently in Kenneth’s life than you seem to.

And/or He has a different schedule for cleaning Kenneth up than you do.

I don’t know of an pastor who hasn’t taught a raft of junky stuff . . . particularly in their younger more arrogant years or older more arrogant years.

Arrogance is a super sin in maybe a majority of pulpits. And wherever arrogance is, there will be heresies and stupid assertions.

IN EVERY DENOMINATION.

Just because your Pastor’s junky assertions are more to your sensibilities and comfort zones doesn’t make them more right than Kenneth’s.


13 posted on 03/09/2012 12:02:33 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: who knows what evil?

THANKS FOR YOUR HUMBLING AND KIND REPLY.

May God bless you and those you love with His abundant provision, grace, forgiveness, peace, joy, love, faith, hope, protection, guidance, intimacy with Him and with those you Love.


14 posted on 03/09/2012 12:03:56 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
My friend had no idea she’d been speaking their language at all. She was just doing her usual of praying in tongues as she had ran out of things to pray in English.

What is the point of praying in a language you don't understand? What if what you are saying is offensive to God?

What's with the unreadable fonts? Please use a font normal people can read.

15 posted on 03/09/2012 1:16:58 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Quix
There are a few things that are often overlooked when the gift of speaking in tongues is discussed.

The account in Acts tell of the practical purpose of helping those who were foreigners hear the gospel in their own language and thus this gift helped to establish the Christian church.
Those speaking in tongues understood what they were saying and had control over whether to speak or not just as Paul later commented.

In the congregation if there was no one to translate then the speaker was to keep quiet so the event was orderly and restrained.

Finally those gifts , speaking in tongues and their interpretation, were to cease so in and of themselves they would not later serve as evidence of the operation of God's spirit.

What would would fulfill that role was those fruitcake's of the spirit Paul listed, love, joy, peace, etc. with the greatest being love.
It was by that love, not speaking in tongues, that Jesus said,
‘By this all will know you are my disciples, if you have among yourselves’.

So when I look for evidence of the operation of God's spirit I look for the practice of Christian love Jesus spoke about and the fruitages of God's spirit that Paul listed not the speaking in tongues.

16 posted on 03/09/2012 1:44:19 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Lx

Some fonts are designed to help minimize those with irrational, unBiblical & obnoxious attitudes among my readers.

In terms of your question . . . Perhaps some enlightenment

MIGHT occur on reading I Cor 12-14.


17 posted on 03/09/2012 2:02:01 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: count-your-change
Those speaking in tongues understood what they were saying

Photobucket

Brazen bald faced ASSUMPTION.

18 posted on 03/09/2012 2:04:32 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: count-your-change

And authentic love comes in many wrappings, packages and forms.


19 posted on 03/09/2012 2:05:27 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: count-your-change
and restrained.

Sounds like editorializing according to your personal sensibilities.

King David's wife had a comment about his dancing before the Lord in a more 'restrained' fashion. She ended up barren for her attitude/critique.

"Decently and in order" the KJV says. Yeah, chaos is not orderly or helpful.

The MOST beautiful sounds, music, worship experiences I've ever been a part of have been the 3-5 times in my 65 years when in a medium to large group, Holy Spirit led and directed singing in tongues broke out in different parts of the congregations simultaneously. Different melodies; different languages; no one leading but Holy Spirit--EVERY MELODY INTERWEAVING SYMPHONICALLY TO PERFECTION. It may well have been that angels were also adding their voices as the sound was thoroughly Heavenly. And I doubt many had much of a clue as to the specifics Holy Spirit was expressing from their spirit to God--just as Paul notes in I Cor 12-14. Then, when Holy Spirit was finished, it all stopped very close to the same instant.

Glibly skipping over Paul's mention about his mind not being enlightened by his praying in tongues is not very . . . honorable in the argument, to me.

Basically, fantasies and rationalizations don't hold a candle to Biblical truth and Biblical experiences.

As to the love aspect . . . some of the nastiest pontifications I've experienced in my 65 years have been on the part of folks wailing about a lack of love and with great hostility against tongues.

Impressive.

20 posted on 03/09/2012 2:22:43 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Jmouse007

I was trying be diplomatic.

IMO, I’m with the Word of God on Copeland.

He’s a false teacher, a deceiver and a fraud.


21 posted on 03/09/2012 3:10:44 PM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Quix
"For whatever reason, God still sees fit to use him."

I have herd stories that during the 50's healing revival that men would fight over how would speak first or who would speak last, and in all the fist fights and mayhem God still chose to heal during the services.

22 posted on 03/09/2012 3:48:18 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Grammar & spelling maybe wrong, get over it, the world will not come to an end!)
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To: Quix
Impressing you was not the goal. Paul's comments to the Corinthians show that the gift of speaking in tongues was of a far lessor nature than prophesying or that of Christian love above all and that speaking in tongues was one of those gifts that was to pass away.

So it's neither my nor your sensibilities that is salient but what Scripture says. Speaking in tongues is of no importance to the mature Christian church.

23 posted on 03/09/2012 4:11:01 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Quix
I've read it, perhaps you need to read it again.

Using fonts that make it hard to fathom what you're writing is useless. I'm not interested enough to cut and paste your fonts into a text editor so I can read it. Trust me, your choice of font will have zero effect on, "those with irrational, unBiblical & obnoxious attitudes among my readers." While I certainly would support anything that brings the Word towards unbelievers, using a cursive font, is not one of them.

24 posted on 03/09/2012 4:21:36 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Quix
Just because your Pastor’s junky assertions are more to your sensibilities and comfort zones doesn’t make them more right than Kenneth’s."

Having taught Biblical Studies, Systematic Theology and Pastoral Studies on the graduate and undergraduate level for many years, I am not basing my opinion of Copland on my "pastor’s junky assertions" or my "sensibilities and comfort zones". Having examined Copland and his heretical teachings in light of the Word of God and sound Christian doctrine, I stand by my conclusions... Kenneth Copland is a heretic and false teacher.

As for "God still seeing fit to use him", there is nothing to indicate that Almighty God is using him. God's Word is clear; Satan has his own "Servants of righteousness" and Kenneth Copland fits the description found in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 to a tee:

"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds."

25 posted on 03/09/2012 4:24:30 PM PST by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from evil, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: Jmouse007; fishtank; Quix

Having spent years studying and teaching the Bible, theology, and apologetics both formally and informally and having worked in ministry specializing in countering heresies, I am siding in with Jmouse and fishtank on this one.

Copeland is a heretic.

Regarding speaking in tongues, I am rather ambivalent about it. The Bible is not clear what it is specifically (other languages or nonsense) and I have seen the ‘gift’ abused in many churches, misused as proof of salvation, and also ‘appear’ without interpretation (which is unbiblical).

It is not something I seek after and if God sees fit to give it to me than that is His doing, not mine. I do caution those I work with in getting directly involved in churches that emphasize tongues because of the misuse I have seen over the years.


26 posted on 03/09/2012 4:59:40 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: fishtank
He’s a false teacher, a deceiver and a fraud.

Its interesting that Jesus received almost the same reception from the Jewish leaders, "theologians" and Experts in the Law and he was the Son of God!

But when the Pharisees heard about the miracle, they said, "No wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan, the prince of demons." Matthew 12:24

Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.” John 9:16

Among the crowds there was widespread whispering about him. Some said, "He is a good man." Others replied, "No, he deceives the people." John 7:12

Indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue ruler said to the people, "There are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days, not on the Sabbath." Luke 13:4

When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is... Luke 7:39

The Jewish leaders replied, "By our law he ought to die because he called himself the Son of God." John 19:7

And the same type of behavior targeted the early Church:

So they called the apostles back in and commanded them never again to speak or teach in the name of Jesus. Acts 4:18 -- Good thing John & Peter listened to God and not the religious leaders.

I would suggest you leave the judgement to God. Or take the wise words of Gamaliel to heart:

Then he addressed them: "Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men...Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God." - Acts 5:35, 38-39

And if that is not enough, consider Jesus' words to Paul when he asked him why he was persecuting HIM. Jesus takes attacks against the Body of Christ, HIS body personally.

I don't care if you like, follow or ever support Kenneth Copeland. But he is a man of God, a faithful teacher of the Word, and a child of God. And as a Christian, which I assume you are, he at least deserves the same love God has for you.

27 posted on 03/09/2012 5:07:38 PM PST by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: guitarplayer1953

INDEED.

Personally,

I think God TENDS to get MORE GLORY

when He uses such crack-potted vessels.

And folks who think of themselves as squeaky clean tend to be arrogant and worse in their flaws . . . it’s just that their flaws and sins are covered over with thicker white-wash.


28 posted on 03/09/2012 5:15:44 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: count-your-change
. . . tongues . . . were to cease so in and of themselves they would not later serve as evidence of the operation of God's spirit.

More brazen assumption.

WHEN does I Cor 13 indicate that time is to be? NOT 70AD!

Partial Knowledge has not ceased! Neither has tongues . . . except for those unwilling to believe the Bible and obey it.

29 posted on 03/09/2012 5:18:21 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Lx
What if what you are saying is offensive to God?

.

Photobucket

In view of the Scriptures:

I Cor 12 KJV:

10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11But all these workes that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as He will.

I COR 14:
15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the Spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

1.Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

2.Romans 8:27

And He that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

.

Soooooooo how is it that Holy Spirit praying the perfect prayer about what's in the heart and mind of the person concerned would offend God The Father or The Son?

PLEASE EXPLAIN to all of us how it is that

He {Holy Spirit} that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Could possibly OFFEND GOD The Father, or God The Son?

Of course, Biblical wisdom and humility might just note that the question was absurd to begin with.

30 posted on 03/09/2012 5:40:35 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Kandy Atz; fishtank; Jmouse007

Did you skip over the part that we are to expose false teachers?

If his teaching does not align with the Word (and quite a bit of it has not over the years), then he must be exposed, corrected and counseled.

That isn’t judgement, that is protecting the flock from wolves in sheeps clothing.

The more I have seen of Copeland, the less biblical his teachings are.


31 posted on 03/09/2012 5:41:07 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: count-your-change
Those speaking in tongues understood what they were saying

Perhaps you tore these verses out of your Bible:

I Cor 14:
2For he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him; howbeit in the Spirit he speaks mysteries.

14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, AND I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, AND I will sing with the understanding also.

18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

I Cor 14: 39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid NOT to speak with tongues.

.

Now, now. It's not nice to gnash one's teeth AT SCRIPTURE.

32 posted on 03/09/2012 6:01:09 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: guitarplayer1953

I’ve walked away from many a service where pride, the flesh, absurdities, stupidity abounded . . .

yet God moved.

Many folks of good heart do stupid things because they don’t know better or aren’t paying attention to their own craziness.

King David was a worst sort of scoundral when he murdered Bathsheba’s husband etc. Yet he was STILL a man after God’s own heart.

There’s plenty of mysteries.

I just choose to take God at His Word and do my best, by His grace to walk it out and into the fabric of my life. He seems to bless that a lot more than not.


33 posted on 03/09/2012 6:04:06 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: reaganaut

I have read a majority of his books and compared them with the Word. I have heard and read more unbelief and false teaching while sitting in the pews of mainline churches, and even on this forum, than I have in his work.

I have also read much of the “heresy hunters” work that contorts and misquotes him with abandon. And frankly, I am shocked that there are “ministries” who feel “called” to do nothing to edify the Body, instead they only attack ministers and ministries. I wonder who called them, and you, to this great task?

God does not need help to expose heretics and false prophets. Of that, I am quite certain.


34 posted on 03/09/2012 6:24:36 PM PST by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: count-your-change
Speaking in tongues is of no importance to the mature Christian church.

I guess you and Jimmy Carter agree that The Apostle Paul didn't know what he was talking about and you know more about Spiritual truths than Paul did.

Perhaps if you glue the Scriptures below that you seem to have torn out, God will forgive your tearing them out of the Bible.

Obviously, Paul was wrong, per your sensibilities, when Pauls wrote IN SCRIPTURE:

I Cor 12:
11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as He will.

21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

I Cor 12:28:
28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues I Cor 14:
2For he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him; howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

.

{OH DEAR! what childishness! . . . evidently--according to count-your-change}

I Cor 14:
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; . . .

.

{OH DEAR! Can't have that! What childishness to have Holy Spirit edifying one's self while praying in tongues! Off with their heads for being sooooooo childish! Harumph!}

I Cor 14: 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

.

{OH DEAR! Tear ALL Paul's letters out of the New Testament. He was OBVIOUSLY tooooo childish and immature to have written Scripture! /sarc}

18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

.

{OH DEAR! MORE evidence--Tear ALL Paul's letters out of the New Testament. He was OBVIOUSLY tooooo childish and immature to have written Scripture! /sarc}

39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

.

{OH DEAR! MORE evidence--Clearly Paul was simply toooo childish to know a living thing about Christianity! Tear ALL Paul's letters out of the New Testament. He was OBVIOUSLY tooooo childish and immature to have written Scripture! /sarc}

35 posted on 03/09/2012 6:40:10 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Jmouse007

Welllllllll

Personally, I don’t care how many degrees nor how many awards nor how many decades of teaching are under your belt at how lofty a Univ of Theology.

Kenneth Copeland asserts that

Jesus is the Christ;

That Jesus came in the flesh;

Was crucified for our sins;

Rose the third day etc. etc. etc.

SCRIPTURE says that no one can assert such things by other than Holy Spirit.

He prays in a Biblical way and sees Biblical results.

And my close relative’s wife is alive due to Kenneth’s ministry.

Go ahead and pile your perspective a mile high.

My close relative won’t care a flip. Like the blind man who saw—my relative has a wife still . . . and his kids and grand kids have a mother and grandmother still.

Your arguments are merely arguments . . . and along-side of life vs death . . . more than a bit absurdly looking, as well.

However, by all means, take your gilded buckets of rocks with you to Heaven. God may be very impressed with their gilding and overlook them.

/sarc


36 posted on 03/09/2012 6:46:20 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: reaganaut
I hope this is not true for you.

Most folks I've seen with that

It is not something I seek after and if God sees fit to give it to me than that is His doing, not mine.

sort of stance . . . sort of are saying to God

OK, Big Daddy, If you want to unfold my arms, open my heart, mind and spirit with a crowbar and hit me over the head with it--I'll tolerate it.

God Holy Spirit is NOT about to do things that way. He's far too much of a Gentleman.

Tongues like everything else in life and Christianity are also a matter of FAITH: WHATSOEVER IS NOT OF FAITH, IS SIN.

AS The Lord walked me through some years ago . . . after the electric goosebumps leave; the anointed aura of electricity leave . . . God asked me how I'd become Saved through Christ's Blood?

Of course, by FAITH.

So, could I have FAITH that Holy Spirit was putting HIS MEANING to whatever sounds I made, or not?

By His Grace, I could. I haven't looked back.

37 posted on 03/09/2012 6:54:44 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Kandy Atz

Anointedly put.

PRAISE GOD for your Faithfulness to His Word; His priorities; His kids.


38 posted on 03/09/2012 6:56:01 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: reaganaut

Oh, I’m sure the Religious rulers 2,000 felt the same way and said the same things.

And, there is a time to do that.

Sounds to me like your criteria as applied to Kennety are more than a little too narrow and prissy . . . with too few mirrors.


39 posted on 03/09/2012 6:57:17 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Kandy Atz
I have read a majority of his books and compared them with the Word. I have heard and read more unbelief and false teaching while sitting in the pews of mainline churches, and even on this forum, than I have in his work.

I have also read much of the “heresy hunters” work that contorts and misquotes him with abandon. And frankly, I am shocked that there are “ministries” who feel “called” to do nothing to edify the Body, instead they only attack ministers and ministries. I wonder who called them, and you, to this great task?

God does not need help to expose heretics and false prophets. Of that, I am quite certain.

I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY. I've found his stuff the same.

And, I've made a similar assessment of the heresy hunters. Their arrogance and prissiness are nauseating and stink to low hell.

40 posted on 03/09/2012 7:00:54 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
like the old saying if God can use Balems ass then He could use me too.
41 posted on 03/09/2012 7:07:56 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Grammar & spelling maybe wrong, get over it, the world will not come to an end!)
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To: Quix
Perhaps if you changed the fonts and colours some more it would help your understanding or toss in some of the famous pictures but the comments about tearing pages out of the Bible and attempts at ridicule won't.
42 posted on 03/09/2012 7:28:30 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

I’m pretty fiesty on the topic.

I’m sick to death of the idiotic arguments that don’t sound like they’ve ever been in the same galactic cluster as a Bible.

I may feel somewhat charitable toward y’all as individuals.

I cannot say the same about your assertions on this topic.

I’ll shred them every way I can as I feel they are from the pit.

My reading of the NT is that Christ Himself did not suffer foolishness well, if at all.


43 posted on 03/09/2012 7:41:55 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: count-your-change

BTW,

I consider that post of yours a rather sleezy way to avoid dealing with the Scriptures I posted to your points.


44 posted on 03/09/2012 7:42:38 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: guitarplayer1953

Absolutely indeed . . .

Whether the donkey had teeth missing, burrs in its tail and stank, or not.


45 posted on 03/09/2012 7:43:54 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

Sounds like me after a hard day’s work.


46 posted on 03/09/2012 7:51:11 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Grammar & spelling maybe wrong, get over it, the world will not come to an end!)
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To: Kandy Atz; fishtank; Jmouse007; Godzilla; ejonesie22

My ministry work exposes the heresies of Mormonism and other pseudo Christian cults. In that area I have become familiar with the subtle rewording and changes in context used by such groups. I see similar things in much of Copeland’s (and some other televangelists) work.

Just because something sounds biblical or even quotes Scripture doesn’t make it doctrinally sound. Mormonism is strong proof of that.

God uses people like me in exposing heresies. He uses His followers. Does He NEED me? No. Does He USE me for His purposes? Yes. And not just me.


47 posted on 03/09/2012 7:58:55 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Quix; Jmouse007

SCRIPTURE says that no one can assert such things by other than Holy Spirit.

- - - —
Mormons assert the same thing. Do you put them in the same category?


48 posted on 03/09/2012 8:01:19 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Quix; Jmouse007

And my close relative’s wife is alive due to Kenneth’s ministry.

- - - -
I’m sorry Quix but that is a HUGE error. Your close relative’s wife is alive due to GOD choosing to heal her. Not because of Kenneth Copeland.

That is very close to giving Copeland glory, not God.


49 posted on 03/09/2012 8:04:02 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: guitarplayer1953

I know that feeling.

And aroma.

LOL.


50 posted on 03/09/2012 8:10:36 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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