The Passing of the Primitive Church: Forty Variations on an Unpopular Theme [Lds: JC's church died]

This Mormon scholar (Hugh Nibley) writes with the opposite of a popular read in mind. (Hence, the bare excerpt quotes here).

Yet these brief excerpts are enough to give you the tenor of how Mormon scholars ignore what stares them in the face: The New Testament...which serves as the best representation of what the early church expected re: the future of the church.

And that is exactly the opposite of what Nibley concludes. [See next posts]

You know, MUCH was made in the MSM about a Texas pastor who supported Gov. Perry labeling Romney's Mormonism as a "cult."

I'm talking about HUNDREDS if not thousands of MSM articles...
...hundreds if not more of blog entries...
...other media-venue coverage (broadcasting)...

So, why has Mitt Romney received a near 100% "cone of silence" -- a near-free pass of what he and his church labels Christian Protestants, Christian Catholics, and Christian Orthodox???

Why was it somehow "relevant" what a Texas pastor believed about Mormonism; but somehow "irrelevant" what Mitt Romney & other Mormon leaders accuse Christians and Christian leaders of?

Why? [Well who does the MSM really want to get the GOP nomination, anyhow?...to make it easier on Obama?]

So...Where are the articles, the blogs, the broadcasts on Mormonism's "revelation" on what they believe Christian churches to be?

When the Jeffress & other "cult" reference articles broke out in the Fall of 2011, that had to be among the most lopsided MIScoverage of relio-politics I've ever seen!!!

A belief of a Texas pastor that nobody had heard of nationally mattered? But what Romney believed about Christians -- as well as his dominant general authorities ... those who might be tempted to reduce him to a "puppet" in the White House ... what they believed about Christians wasn't even worth one article???

'Tis time for a series of articles to redress this:

This thread excerpt comes from an OFFICIAL BYU Web site of the Lds church, which taught Mitt Romney.

For a recent similarly posted article on the so-called “UNIVERSAL Christian Apostasy” that Mormons accuse Christians of...see...The Apostasy [What Lds believe re: Christians: Label us 'apostates' like Islam calls us 'infidels']

From the Mormon scholar article: ...By its very definition church history requires unquestioning acceptance of the basic proposition that the church did survive...the normal reaction to the question—did the church remain on earth?—has not been serious inquiry in a richly documented field, but shocked recoil from the edge of an abyss into which few can look without a shudder. Yet today that question is being asked again...

And the Mormon church has more than raised a question; they assume an answer that slanders the worldwide Christian church as having abandoned the faith.

Why did Mormon church founder Joseph Smith assume that the original church of Jesus Christ was totally "lost..." ...to apostasy?

And how did the Mormon concept of a total "restoration" come to be so closely linked with so-called complete Christian apostasy?
(1) No "restoration" can occur minus the complete loss of the original church. (The Mormon founder needed to take a scorched-earth approach to Christians, otherwise he -- and his restoration -- was 100% superflous. Either he was unnecessary, or the Christian church was...so Smith chose the Christian church to be! He essentially tossed all Christians into one gigantic graveyard, and tried to erect a new religion on top of it.
(2) Let's face it, if Smith's "diagnosis" of Christians was wrong, that all did NOT commit apostasy, then no need existed for him or his restoration-from-scratch.

Once contemporary Mormons concede they are other Christians – and legitimize other Christians – then it proves there was never a need for a "restoration."

From the Mormon article: ...The purpose of this paper is to list briefly the principal arguments supporting the thesis that the church founded by Jesus and the apostles did not survive and was not expected to...The fate of the vast majority of Christians was not to be overcome by a frontal attack—true martyrs were relatively few—but to be led astray by perverters...The offenders are not pagans but loudly professing Christians...The Christian masses do not realize what is happening to them; they are "bewitched" by a thing that comes as softly and insidiously as the slinging of a noose.

Yes, the very name of Satan comes from diabolos -- the Slanderer...The Accuser. And the purpose of the Mormon church is to accuse the Christian brethren of outright total apostasy, which Lds.org accomplishes night and day. To Nibley, "the Christian masses...are 'bewitched'...

Yes...Mormons...Mormon leaders believe "Christian masses...are bewitched."

How inspiring is that for Christians -- Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox -- to support this coming election?

From the Mormon article: But if the early saints mention no glorious future for the church, when that should be their strongest comfort...

This is Hugh Nibley ignoring the most obvious New Testament verses, particularly the apostle Paul's prophesy in Ephesians 3:21.

LDS essentially label Paul as a “false prophet” when he told the Ephesians: "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout ALL AGES, world without end. Amen." (Eph. 3:21)

Any Lds here care to point out exactly how it is that Paul falsely prophesied by mentioning which "age" that the church failed to bring glory to God? (Wanna go on record & be exact if you’re going to make such a slanderous accusation of the apostle?) How can there "be glory in the church...throughout ALL ages" if it's a total apostasy? Ya wanna speculate exactly what glory was brought to God by the church in the years 400 to 1800 if the current writers defaming the entire Christian church are right?

LDS indirectly label the Father as one who is so weak that He couldn’t maintain His promise to ensure that glory “in the church” would continue “throughout all generations, for ever and ever!”

For another blasphemy or slander—the slander of the Holy Spirit—with the LDS labeling the Holy Ghost a liar when the Spirit prophesied that the apostasy would be partial: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, thqt in the latter times SOME shall depart from the faith..." (1 Tim. 4:1) [Why do they claim the Holy Ghost had trouble with his long-term vision when He communicated what He did to Paul?)

Tell me, why is that the Holy Ghost speaks so "expressly" about this matter in 1 Timothy 4:1, yet LDS are so hostile to what He has to say?

If Mormons would even look at their own “scriptures” – for example Doctrine & Covenants 84:17-18 – they'd realize that a proper priesthood is one that is one continuous priesthood! In fact, D&C 86:8 it says it continued thru the lineage of fathers.

The voting public has earlier elected the equally bizarre members of the Unitarian Church.

Not talking about people accused of being Deists or Untarians, but out and out members of a church called "the Unitarian Church".

Then we elected a guy who belonged to Trinity Church of Christ ~ itself a total parody of a Puritan Church gone astray into Minstrelsy and erzatz gospel music.

We have had a couple of guys who were members of fallen away Quaker churches ~ and far more than our fair share of Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) Presidents!

Someone wants me to come up with a conclusion I am sure ~ but I'm voting for Newt even if he's not on the ticket.

The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley ...

Dr. Nibley has long been one of my favorite LDS apologists.

Nibley was a professor of Middle Eastern languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic) at BYU for nearly 50 years. He was probably competent in his fields of study, but became notorious for his forays into other areas.

Nibley would wander off the reservation in order to defend the Mormon faith ... then, after his arguments were completely debunked, expend enormous amounts of time and effort explaining how he didn't really mean what he wrote and how his change in position really wasn't a change. His two most famous ventures were The Book of Mormon Challenge and his authentication of the Joseph Smith's translation of the Book of Abraham, an endeavor which was exposed as a complete fraud.

Nibley was in his mid-90's when he died a few years ago and is now on his way toward claiming his celestial kingdom and his harem of goddess wives ... such as they exist.

The Apostolic Fathers denounce with feeling the all too popular doctrine that God's church simply cannot fail.

******************

Sooo..... this Nibley believes/concurs... as above...

Thus impugning the recorded words of Christ from Matthew 16:18....
THAT...
[Christ] will build His church..... and...
....the gates of hell will not prevail against [his church]

Now we know just what kind of "scholar" we are dealing with....

i see it as love, not hate.
Jesus himself, warned us of false prophets and false teachers.
-
look at the suffering caused by the false prophet Mohammad.
-
and Jeremiah said you will know a true prophet, for always being correct.
...yet,
Joseph Smith said that there were 1000 year old people living on the moon, who dressed like Amish !
-
the Bible says it is evil to lead people astray.
Colofornian is trying to do the opposite.
that is love, not hate.

...The purpose of this paper is to list briefly the principal arguments supporting the thesis that the church founded by Jesus and the apostles did not survive and was not expected to...

WHAT???

And under the "M" heading we find:

MORMON Scholar

Ah, today's THREE MINUTES' HATE is off to a roaring start, I see.

Soon to be followed by HOURS of Official MORMON writings...

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

Ah, today's THREE MINUTES' HATE is off to a roaring start, I see.

No, Ma'am; we do this for MUCH more than 3 minutes a day!
We've devoted a YEAR or so of our lives; 6 days a week; to bring the news of MORMONism right to your door!

Thank goodness you're saving us from the infernal clutches of those scheming Mormons.

Jim; did you know the Book of MORMON contains the FULLNESS of the Gospel??

did you know the Book of MORMON contains the FULLNESS of the Gospel??

Well, if that is "true"...and it must be so 'cause the Mormon leaders say so...
...then what 'bout all these things listed below???
...most of which are definitively "Mormon 'gospel' stuff"...
...If the Book of Mormon is plain "Mormon gospel-full" minus these things...
...Then I guess these things are man-made add-ons tagged on by mere men led of their own accord, eh?

Mormon "sacred" things not found in the Mormon "sacred" BoM:

1. Church organizational structure and titles of leaders [Hey, we don't need to provoke pagans into laughter by coming up with religious titles like the bishopric, do we?]
2. gods...plural [due to insistance by some FReeper Mormons that they only worship one godhead, a few FI have begun referencing that belief as polymonotheism]
3. Plurality of wives doctrine [Ah. Polymonogamy]
4. Word of Wisdom [I guess the people of South America weren't very wise about Brazilian coffee]
5. God is an exalted man [Who knew this facebook boy would make it big? Hmm...a god who worshiped his own god/gods once upon a time, eh?]
6. Celestial marriage [If you want to become an eternal polygamist, current Lds church policy says you can...just make sure you secure permission of anybody you've divorced & get "married" to your multiple SERIAL spouses one at a time in the temple for eternity]
7. Men may become Gods ["Hey, God, move over...you can go ahead & take my measurements for my throne"]
8. Three degrees of glory [Mormons tout resurrection for all; yet John says there's a resurrection unto "damnation" (John 5:29) -- not too glorious]
9. Baptism for the dead [monopoly on the religio-necro industry, that's for sure! I think we should call this a polymonopoly on necro-baptisms...when are they going to open up fast-food-like windows to meet the demand to grow with more genealogical records online?]
10. Eternal progression [at least til you hit the ceiling of your assigned glory...you terrestials aren't getting out!]
11. The Aaronic Priesthood [yeah, like the Bible -- apostle Paul -- says, these 12-year-old "elders" better keep to one wife!]
12. Temple works of washings, anointing, endowments, sealing; along with temple -- at least for its newly re-purposed usage [I guess the people of the Book of Mormon times weren't very "sacred" compared to contemporary Mormons]