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Thanksgiving Day shopping called 'assault' on family life
cna ^ | November 22, 2012 | Kevin J. Jones

Posted on 11/22/2012 2:16:10 PM PST by NYer

Denver, Colo., Nov 22, 2012 / 06:10 am (CNA/EWTN News).- The expansion of Thanksgiving weekend shopping to the holiday itself has raised concerns among both workers and clergy who worry that the change puts family time at risk.

Father Sinclair Oubre, Spiritual Moderator of the Texas-based Catholic Labor Network, said the store openings are a “disturbing trend” that is “an assault on the family.”

“We have almost completed the evolutionary process of having two classes of workers: those who get holidays off, and can stay with their families, and those who are forced to work, so that those who have holidays off won't have to stay with their families,” Fr. Oubre said.

Retailers such as Sears, Wal-Mart, Target, Kmart, Toys “R” Us and Gap are increasingly opening their stores on Thanksgiving Day. The following day, known as Black Friday, is one of the most profitable shopping days of the year.

Business analysts cite increased competition from internet shopping and some customers’ desires to shop on Thanksgiving as motives to open stores on what is traditionally a day off, according to the Wall Street Journal.

In 2011, retailers who opened on Thanksgiving Day earned 22 percent more over the Thanksgiving Day weekend.

Two popular internet petitions on the Change.org website are protesting the changes.

Casey St. Clair, a Target employee of six years from Corona, Calif., organized one petition to “save Thanksgiving” that now has over 370,000 signatures.

She said Thanksgiving Day off “really does give me that one day to relax and visit family I otherwise have no time to see.”

Introducing more business hours on the evening of Thanksgiving Day means that employees need to arrive hours before the store opens, she explained.

Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan of New York criticized the new phenomenon of Thanksgiving Day shopping in a Nov. 20 essay in the New York Post.

“The stores, we hear, will open on Thanksgiving. Isn’t that a sign of progress and liberation?” he asked. “Sorry, but no — it’s a sign of a further descent into a highly privatized, impersonal, keep-people-at-a-distance culture, one that values having stuff and doing things over just being with people whom we love, cherish and appreciate.”

The cardinal said he will pray this Thanksgiving that God preserve “a culture where personal friendship, genuine conversation and family unity can be a high priority.”

“I’ll beg God to keep those values constant in our society,” he said. “Why? Because I’m fearful they’re disappearing.”


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: blackfriday; culturewars; retail; thanksgiving
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1 posted on 11/22/2012 2:16:13 PM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Dolan is right. We used to lament the commercialization of Christmas. In opening stores on Thanksgiving day, we have forgone what little respect still remained for the family.


2 posted on 11/22/2012 2:18:25 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer
Father Sinclair Oubre, Spiritual Moderator of the Texas-based Catholic Labor Network, said the store openings are a “disturbing trend” that is “an assault on the family.”

Communist/Labor-Union propaganda masquerading as religious concern.

This, along with the Walmart Black Friday walkout, is being orchestrated straight out of the White Hut by Van Jones.

3 posted on 11/22/2012 2:22:58 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Labor unions are the Communist Party of the USA.)
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To: NYer

I wonder how our Military folks in Afghanistan feel about working on Thanksgiving, they have families too.


4 posted on 11/22/2012 2:24:18 PM PST by Einherjar ( Asking only workman's wages I come looking for a job But I get no offers...)
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To: NYer

Obama voters.

If no one would go shopping, then the stores would not open.

The POTUS does not believe in God. Why should his voters? Why should businesses close on a day traditionally set aside for Christian Americans to thank God for the many blessings he has given us? These businesses do a lot of consumer research on what people will do and accept.


5 posted on 11/22/2012 2:24:56 PM PST by petitfour
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To: NYer

When I was a kid, the local mall was closed on Sundays. Then, just Picadilly (the cafeteria-style restaurant) opened on Sundays. Now, of course, everything is open. No surprise that stores are opening more and more on Thanksgiving Day. They will soon be open on Christmas, too, if they aren’t already.

I applaud stores like Hobby Lobby, Lifeway, and Chick-Fil-A for sticking to their principles and remaining closed on Sundays. Hold tight, guys! God will bless your faithfulness!!


6 posted on 11/22/2012 2:25:47 PM PST by TXBlair (We will not forget Benghazi, Mister Prez.)
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To: NYer

Not a prig or anti capitalist. But back in the day there were blue laws(in NY) for shopping for less than necessary items on Sundays and many holidays. And things were better then.


7 posted on 11/22/2012 2:31:07 PM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you)
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To: NYer
Everything should close. No gas, no grocery stores, nothing. Absolutely nothing.
8 posted on 11/22/2012 2:33:42 PM PST by GalaxyAB
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To: GalaxyAB

Yes, even stores owned by Jews, and emergency services too.

/sarc.


9 posted on 11/22/2012 2:39:07 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: NYer

You can choose to not participate


10 posted on 11/22/2012 2:43:54 PM PST by Huskrrrr
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To: Huskrrrr

How would that look to the neighbors? /s


11 posted on 11/22/2012 2:45:36 PM PST by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Huskrrrr

I worked public safety for 34 years. I worked many Holidays. As a paramedic we worked out shift sharing, etc so we could have dinner with family and the same with the PD. We did our best but I worked many holidays.
As a thought, right now several members of my family are shopping some of the deals. While in a small part it may be anti family, this time of year has become quite a family event. I would prefer less commercialization but I am not so against I would support any laws. I agree that if you don’t like it, don’t participate.


12 posted on 11/22/2012 2:47:18 PM PST by midcop402
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To: GalaxyAB
Quite frankly I am appalled by FReepers and conservatives far and wide. I am old enough to know what is meant by the phrase...they roll oup the sidewalks at 8pm on Saturday night.

I am old enough to recall when there was no gas, no grocery, nothing on Sundays, EVRY WEEK. As another FReeper said, life was better then.

What happened to us trumpeting ‘family values.’ And yeah...I do support the workers at Walmart not working TONIGHT!

There are a lot of crazy things going on in this world and if people want to pull their families back together? Tell big bad WalMart...not today thank you for respecting my time with family...

Ya’ll a bunch of scrooges and grinches. What good is capitalism without family? And stuff the oh...troops, doctors, firemen stuff...critical necessary ....and I think if you asked some troops...they'd say they are fighting for TRADITIONAL Thanksgiving, they are not there for Walmart, best buy, or macy's....

Personally I think many here on FR who say ...tough-- too bad, somebody else will do your job...you are evil and I rebuke you.

13 posted on 11/22/2012 2:48:47 PM PST by EBH (0bama is guilty of willful neglect of duty.)
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To: NYer

My big question is: where have these people been the last bunch of decades? For all my life some businesses have been open on Thanksgiving. Convenience stores, gas stations, some restaurants, some grocery stores, once night time hits a lot of bars. There’s nothing new about this idea of some people working the holidays. The only thing that’s change is higher profile companies seeking Black Friday dollars are opening Thanksgiving.

And I sure hope the folks whining about people working today don’t watch any TV or listen to the radio. That’s all people working today too.


14 posted on 11/22/2012 2:54:16 PM PST by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: petitfour
The POTUS does not believe in God.

Just posted the following thread to the News/Activism Forum.

Obama drops God from Thanksgiving address for fourth year straight

15 posted on 11/22/2012 2:57:30 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: EBH

We’re REALISTS that actually understand how the world works and HAS worked for a long time. Do you actually think just because a store is closed today means nobody is working? Do you think those displays that’ll be on the floor tomorrow put themselves up?

The fact of the matter is retail workers have worked Thanksgiving forever. The only thing that’s changed is which employees show up when.

And none of this precludes family. People that are stuck working today schedule around it. I’ve had Thanksgiving dinner with my sister-in-law the nurse on Friday or even Saturday before. The family that wants to get together will find the time, the family that doesn’t find the time was probably not getting together anyway.

“Traditional” Thanksgiving includes people working, you just never bothered to notice before. A “traditional” Cowboys football game is happening right now, that’s people working. A “traditional” Lions game happened earlier, people working. A “traditional” parade preceded that, people working. People work on Thanksgiving, not just critical infrastructure people, regular people. Some people like it, often times these jobs offer shift differential, and if it’s a tipping industry holiday customers tend to trip pretty well. All of this might have happened before without you interacting with them or thinking through the implications, but there they were, on the job, for probably your entire life.


16 posted on 11/22/2012 3:05:33 PM PST by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: petitfour

Now that’s not true. I’ll have you know that Barry believes in himself.


17 posted on 11/22/2012 3:06:31 PM PST by RichInOC (Palin 2016: The Perfect Storm.)
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To: NYer

It only is if families actually are stupid enough to go shopping. I went to church then ate thanksgiving dinner with friends. To h*** with corporate greed.


18 posted on 11/22/2012 3:21:59 PM PST by Morgana (Time to play cowboys and muslims.)
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To: NYer

I don’t want or need any more clutter for my home, and regardless of price I will not set foot in a store on Thanksgiving Day. Tomorrow, I might shop online for things that are genuinely useful, particularly for emergencies, but those tend not to have impressive sales. My shopping has been curtailed for the past four years, and I am not buying anything non-essential until the communist thug is out of our White House. I will not support an American economy that serves only to enable and fund his communist takeover.


19 posted on 11/22/2012 3:22:51 PM PST by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: James C. Bennett

Exactly!!! No exceptions!!! (Though Jews do Thanksgiving, don’t they?)


20 posted on 11/22/2012 3:24:20 PM PST by GalaxyAB
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To: James C. Bennett

Exactly!!! No exceptions!!! (Though Jews do Thanksgiving, don’t they?)


21 posted on 11/22/2012 3:24:33 PM PST by GalaxyAB
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To: Einherjar

When my brother was in the Air Force overseas, he would make sure that airmen who had wives or families got holidays off if possible, and then he would have the single people who worked the holiday over for food and football on another day.


22 posted on 11/22/2012 3:26:08 PM PST by Tax-chick (Are you getting ready for the Advent Kitteh?)
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To: discostu
People work on Thanksgiving, not just critical infrastructure people, regular people. Some people like it, often times these jobs offer shift differential, and if it’s a tipping industry holiday customers tend to trip pretty well.

Displays on the floor, shift differential, big day for tipping. That's all this discussion boils down to, for you. Hm.

23 posted on 11/22/2012 3:27:02 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: NYer

The Dallas Cowboys have expressed solidarity with the workers, by deciding to take the day off.


24 posted on 11/22/2012 3:27:59 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: hinckley buzzard

No that’s all you EDITED it down to. Don’t blame me for what YOU ignored.


25 posted on 11/22/2012 3:29:16 PM PST by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: NYer

And what’s just as sad, is that there are Christmas lights burning out at major chains: the Christmas stuff started getting put out as they were packing up the remains of the Halloween merchandise. . .


26 posted on 11/22/2012 3:30:37 PM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: GalaxyAB; James C. Bennett
Everything should close. No gas, no grocery stores, nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Agreed ... this is the way life was back in the 50's. On Sundays and holidays, stores were closed, as were most restaurants. Such a move, by contemporary society would be viewed as a big step backwards. As I recall, there were no sports games on those days either.

27 posted on 11/22/2012 3:31:04 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: dfwgator
The Dallas Cowboys have expressed solidarity with the workers, by deciding to take the day off.

LOLOL!

28 posted on 11/22/2012 3:31:14 PM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: NYer

One thing that puzzles me about all this “Black Frday” nonsense is that chrstmas is not politically correct. “Halloween” is now a bigger holiday than chrstmas is in American general culture. So what is everyone shopping for?


29 posted on 11/22/2012 3:31:52 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Communist/Labor-Union propaganda masquerading as religious concern.

What can't be purchased on the days following Thanksgiving that's being offered on Thanksgiving day with the merchants' employees being forced to work?

Kudos to Father Sinclair for having to state the obvious......

30 posted on 11/22/2012 3:35:57 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: NYer
Life is constantly changing. My kids don't go though the rituals of when I was a kid. And they don't sit in front of the radio and listen to Sky King either.

Imagine if we all had to go to the well for water...or the outhouse.

People like the rat race...it's like the egg hunt at Easter....Ya just wanna do it.

31 posted on 11/22/2012 3:38:04 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Huskrrrr

I never do the black Friday shopping thing.


32 posted on 11/22/2012 3:42:04 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
So what is everyone shopping for?

That's a good question. I think a lot of people are shopping for themselves. In my family, we generally buy things when we need them, so Christmas presents are tokens in the household, and food items (Wolferman's muffins) or flowers for non-resident relatives.

33 posted on 11/22/2012 3:44:45 PM PST by Tax-chick (Are you getting ready for the Advent Kitteh?)
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To: discostu
And I sure hope the folks whining about people working today don’t watch any TV or listen to the radio. That’s all people working today too.

Best line of the discussion. I made a similar comment yesterday (not here) about how I would expect all of those people complaining about others working today because its anti-family won't be posting this type nonsense today because they can't be all that interested in family if they are arguing with strangers on line. It didn't go over very well.

34 posted on 11/22/2012 3:51:29 PM PST by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: discostu

Sorry ...but might it shock you that I worked retail for over 35 years? Small store, big store etc. I worked as cashier, a front end confidential, store manager, area manager, and distric sales manager...as far as I’m concerned you stick your REALIST greed elsewhere. Quite frankly I have been wondering when retail workers would finally get greedy about their family time. There is nothing on that store shelf that is more important than family.

There was a time when Wednesday night came and we shut it down...and told our employees to go home, have a good Thanksgiving and we’ll see you all bright and early Friday morning.

I am a realist and a company or manager needs to respect the worker. You want happy workers on your shopping experience? It sure isn’t going to be that one that had to start working tonight, missed the dessert, or had to try and find a babysitter.

Oh and when’s the last time you tipped your local Walmart worker, drug store clerk, or how about that Macy’s salesperson?


35 posted on 11/22/2012 3:51:33 PM PST by EBH (0bama is guilty of willful neglect of duty.)
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To: discostu
listen to the radio. That’s all people working today too.

Most of the radio stations around here are fully automated. The programming often gets screwed up, so you'll get two-week old weather forecasts and 15 minute blocks of silence. No one is even on call until the next day.

36 posted on 11/22/2012 3:56:33 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: NYer

Black Friday mob fights are a-OK then?


37 posted on 11/22/2012 4:00:00 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: NYer

I was being sarcastic.


38 posted on 11/22/2012 4:00:00 PM PST by GalaxyAB
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To: Hot Tabasco
Other peoples' freedom is so inconvenient, isn't it?

You are perfectly free to not shop on any day you choose to designate as holy.

Father Karl is a "social justice" guy.

He has a lot more Communist agenda in mind than he is willing to make public.

39 posted on 11/22/2012 4:01:43 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Labor unions are the Communist Party of the USA.)
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To: NYer; a fool in paradise; Slings and Arrows
Ban alcohol too. 365 days a year!


40 posted on 11/22/2012 4:02:30 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Morgana

The only exception I would make is if someone urgently needs medical-type supplies or something really essential unexpectedly. One year I was overjoyed that K-Mart was open where I could buy lidocaine ointment for some burning skin pain. But that’s not what this article is about, obviously.


41 posted on 11/22/2012 4:02:58 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: NYer

I’d certainly sign up for Black Fridays every damn Friday of the year!


42 posted on 11/22/2012 4:04:41 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: EBH

I’ve had family and friends in retail all my life, and did some time there myself. I know lots of people that have had to go to work late Thanksgiving to get things setup for Black Friday. Some were “lucky” to work for a store that kept them late Wednesday to get things setup, I mock the lucky because that generally means getting home from Wednesday’s work in the wee hours of Thanksgiving morning, which really isn’t that great either.

You also have to keep in mind the character of Black Friday has changed dramatically in the last 15 years. It used to be an all day event with sales throughout stores. Now it’s a festival of doorbusters. Black Friday now is over 2 hours after doors open. Which is part of the push for the early openings. WalMart is following the lead of their biggest competitor, Target opened at 9PM last year and this year, WalMart opted for 8PM this year.

I don’t shop Black Friday, no matter when they start it. I have a life rule against working harder to spend money than I did to make it, and I don’t work very hard to make money. But I don’t object to Black Friday.

I just tipped a waitress $20 on a $35 bill. Thanksgiving dinner plans at my favorite restaurant got messed up, then we found one of our other favorites was open, delicious Mexican seafood to the rescue. Discussed the whole working Thanksgiving situation with the waitress, she volunteered. Turns out her family is a lot like my family and doesn’t consider a holiday complete until there’s been a screaming argument, so she opted out. Much like the wife and I, which is why we find a restaurant for Thanksgiving. Not everybody lives in a Norman Rockwell painting. And the ones that do, well they can plan around the work schedule. There’s no law that says you can only have magnificent feasts with your family on holidays.


43 posted on 11/22/2012 4:04:56 PM PST by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: NYer

I tanked up my automobile this morning and wrote checks for two bills, water and Internet. Am I going to hell?


44 posted on 11/22/2012 4:07:02 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Gabz

And do any of them wonder who’s keeping their ISP up so they can be logged onto the internet? Somebody somewhere is at least checking server pulses, hopefully at home in between courses, but maybe not.


45 posted on 11/22/2012 4:07:26 PM PST by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
You are perfectly free to not shop on any day you choose to designate as holy.

Couldn't answer my question could you? Here, let me ask it again in case you missed it:

What can't be purchased on the days following Thanksgiving that's being offered on Thanksgiving day with the merchants' employees being forced to work?

46 posted on 11/22/2012 4:10:06 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: steve86

If the block was only 15 minutes somebody was on call. Actually I’m pretty sure it’s against FCC rules to not have somebody that can run the antenna on site at all times. And he’s probably the guy that had to drive to the studio (which are almost never anywhere near the antenna for some strange reason) to fix the program.


47 posted on 11/22/2012 4:10:58 PM PST by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: NYer

Somebody has to work to keep the Internet running. You can blame Al Gore for inventing such a system.


48 posted on 11/22/2012 4:13:56 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: discostu

Yup! And as you mentioned, there are lots of restaurants open on Thanksgiving - we just prefer to cook at home and not have to worry about getting dressed :-)


49 posted on 11/22/2012 4:15:00 PM PST by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

And where is the freedom of the workers who are forced to work on the holidays? No one is more anti-communist than me but this is an abuse of the workers. It is the absolutizing of libertarian ideals that makes communism attractive; it was Scrooge who created Marx.


50 posted on 11/22/2012 4:17:46 PM PST by Petrosius
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