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Why are some denominations/churches changing their bylaws on gay marriage (Or drinking, smoking...
12/10/2012 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

Posted on 12/10/2012 9:27:44 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist

...gambling, rock music, etc, etc?

Now, this thread isn't about debating what is sin and what isn't or what constitutes sin or doesn't. Please don't hijack this thread over the issues that I listed. Thank you.

This thread is about our changing culture - and let's face it, more and more denominations/churches are ever so slowly moving towards tolerance and/or acceptance of homosexual marriage. The rest in the list (following gay marriage) that I included in the thread were put there to show that if you look back far enough at various denomination's church bylaws some churches were once against this or that - but no longer are. Just like they once were adamantly against homosexuality/homosexual marriage, but are slowly drifting away from that.

Which makes me wonder and posit the following question:

Those (the various ministers who were the crafters of church bylaws and voted on them) believed that they were following God's will in the crafting of their church/denomination bylaws. And they believed that they had it right (or scripturally correct) be it in the early 1800's, early 1850's, late 1800's, early 1900's mid 1900's, etc.

So, if a church/denomination "took a stand" against drinking and smoking or gambling, etc, etc in the 1800's in its bylaws but now has since changed the bylaws on these, did those back in the 1800's really hear from God when they crafted those bylaws? If not, then how can those today who change the church bylaws on these things be certain that they aren't making a mistake by changing the church/denomination's bylaws as they are just as fallible as those who lived back then?

Which leads to churches and the slow change in many denominations taking place over gay marriage....

Where are we as a society headed? What bylaw(s) is/are absolutely correct and never need to be changed?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Current Events; General Discusssion; History; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; moralabsolutes; prolife; religiousleft; sin; trends; vanity
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To: stuartcr
I do not believe that sin exists.

Wow! Then you don't believe in 'eternal life' on FR either, do you?

Reported.

41 posted on 12/10/2012 10:18:07 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Wasichu

Ignores the basic science of fermentation. Until sulfates were added to grape juice in the 1800’s it would naturally ferment inside of hours.


42 posted on 12/10/2012 10:18:38 AM PST by vortec94
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; laweeks
I'm not a theologian, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. We Catholics have eternal non changing Doctrinal Laws and then we've got Canon Laws. Just because a nun, priest, or bishop said something does not mean it was official Church Doctrine. Canon laws change ALL the time and believe it or not from country to country. The Communion fast is an example of canon law.

We use separated brethren because it sounds nicer. We still believe Protestants are material heretics, although perhaps not formal ones, since they don't know any better. Incidentally, we Catholics believe they're all heretics - the Mormons, the Hindus, the Buddhists, etc. We believe we're the one True Church on Earth and if you don't believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, you're a material (although perhaps not formal) heretic. And if you're attending a church that you believe didn't get it right, then what the h-e-double toothpicks are you doing there?

As far as the Inquistion goes, human beings are not perfect and so we make and admit mistakes. But are Jews, Muslims, and Protestants heretics to us Catholics? Well, yeah, we just don't kill or torture them anymore.

43 posted on 12/10/2012 10:19:28 AM PST by old and tired
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Why are they changing? Pretty simple answer—the marketing of deviance by homowood and the old media monopoly is forcing them to change. Furthermore, homosexual power and rights is nothing new. You act as if Sodom and Gomorrah never existed. Homosexuals had all the rights that perverts today address and then some. Same in ancient Rome where, male homosexuals were allowed to buy, sell, use and trade young boys. Same-sex trafficking was in vogue. Some of us simply don’t want to return to what then was defined as civilization.


44 posted on 12/10/2012 10:21:10 AM PST by Neoliberalnot (Marxism works well only with the uneducated and the unarmed.)
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To: mbarker12474; Laissez-faire capitalist
In the mainline denominations of the United Church of Christ, Presbyterian USA, Episcopal U.S., United Methodist, and Evangelical Lutheran, Satan has more or less won.

Perhaps... but 'won' what? These churches are hemorrhaging members. They will surely die on the vine as their congregants leave for greener pastures. And it is no coincidence that the fastest growing churches are the non-denominational spirit-filled variety that have no 'confession', but are only and very insistently Bible concentric.

The smaller churches with a congregational structure tend to be more adept at removing heresies by utter collapse. It is the hierarchical churches, which by their hierarchy, are able to absorb heretical doctrine and survive it for a longer period of time... And the more hierarchical, the more likely one is to find institutionalized forms of those very things, because the hierarchy becomes inured to admitting their error.

And the cost of bureaucracy ALWAYS leads to concession. Gotta get them butts in the pews and get them wallets to open up... And so, a compromise in doctrine becomes inevitable.

45 posted on 12/10/2012 10:21:36 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: fwdude

I don’t see how the 2 are related, but I honestly have no idea what happens after death.


46 posted on 12/10/2012 10:22:35 AM PST by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to, otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

In this case, the “church”, i.e., “the bride of Christ”, (She) who marries the spirit of the age will become a widow in the next.

Many in the church claim to be following God or say they are simply following the leading of the Holy Spirit in liberalizing church teaching or doctrine. Others in the church say they are adhering to the intent of the Holy Scriptures and are also following and accepting the leading, urging and prodding of the Holy Spirit. Put another way, has God’s Truth been revealed once and for all or is it a progressive revelation, ever moving, ever changing?

One thing is perfectly clear in my mind, God the Holy Ghost is NOT confused. One side is right and the other is wrong. May God have mercy upon them all.


47 posted on 12/10/2012 10:26:15 AM PST by miele man
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

“What bylaw(s) is/are absolutely correct and never need to be changed?”

Well, there are at least ten I could think of...


48 posted on 12/10/2012 10:27:40 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: fwdude

I don’t.


49 posted on 12/10/2012 10:29:42 AM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: fwdude

I don’t.


50 posted on 12/10/2012 10:30:27 AM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: stuartcr

I do not believe that sin exists.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How about evil? Do you believe that evil exists?

It’s the same thing.


51 posted on 12/10/2012 10:30:46 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: kabumpo
If you say so.

It'd be interesting to discover what you consider "intoxication."

52 posted on 12/10/2012 10:32:13 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Maybe it’s because these churches were merely following cultural trends to begin with, and now that the cultural trends have changed, they are simply following the new ones (just as they followed the old ones).

You’ve heard the story of what happened when a German and American Baptist group met each other. The Americans thought it was scandalous that the German women drank beer. The Germans though it was scandalous that the American women wore make up.

Far too many churches in the past have jumped through scriptural hoops to prove their cultural bias is backed up by scripture. But, misusing scripture (even if for a just purpose) always ends up with bad results.


53 posted on 12/10/2012 10:32:46 AM PST by Brookhaven (theconservativehand.com - alt2p.com)
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To: Responsibility2nd

For us humans, the concept of good and evil surely exists, otherwise we couldn’t have laws. I don’t believe it exists after death.


54 posted on 12/10/2012 10:37:02 AM PST by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to, otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Because most church in the west have become nothing more than social clubs.


55 posted on 12/10/2012 10:37:47 AM PST by CityCenter (Compromise is the welcome mat to deception.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Here's my Faith in a nutshell - the Nicene Creed

I believe in one God,the Father almighty,maker of heaven and earth,of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen

56 posted on 12/10/2012 10:38:00 AM PST by old and tired
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To: fwdude

It appears you are defining drunkenness as anyone who has a drink.
Just saying.


57 posted on 12/10/2012 10:40:45 AM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

On changing culture; Calif prop 8 as it made it through the courts the original judge ruled it unconstitutional, and one of the reasons was that Biblical/Religious reasons for being against same sex marriage proves the bible was written for the sole purpose of establishing bigotry.


58 posted on 12/10/2012 10:43:39 AM PST by wmp46
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To: svcw
Why did (and apparently changing) the communion on an empty stomach as sinful?

Because it showed disrespect to the body of Christ to have food in your stomach to mix with Christ. It was also very, very important to catch each and every crumb of the Host . . . that's why a patent (I was an altar boy who held the patent) was placed under the chin of each recipient to catch all particles that dropped from the priest's fingers . . . and ONLY A PRIEST COULD HANDLE THE HOST AND THE PARTICLES . . . NO ONE ELSE . . .

Since Vatican II virtually destroyed all respect for the priest, nuns, and the consecrated host, anyone, including the recipient can handle the host. The host could conceivably be dropped on the floor, picked up, and then eaten. Now, either it was a sin with dire consequences to handle the host or it was not.

In any case, the solemnity and respect for all that was sacred to the church has long since disappeared from most suburban, yuppy, trendy, and non-Bible based Christianity.

59 posted on 12/10/2012 10:44:29 AM PST by laweeks
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

What say you?


The Church has from the beginning of the holy roman empire to the present been part for God and part for the institution of man in his hunger for control. The holy roman empire can be seen as the white horses going to conquer and it can also be seen as the great harlot that sits upon many waters.

The preachers for hire will preach what the people who are paying them wants to hear, never mind what the Bible says.


60 posted on 12/10/2012 10:44:52 AM PST by ravenwolf
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