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UPDATE: Rorate Caeliís diatribe against Pope Francis [Catholic Caucus]
Holy Souls Hermitage ^ | March 13, 2013 | Father George David Byers, S.S.L., S.T.D.

Posted on 03/14/2013 8:55:25 AM PDT by NYer

saint peter cathedra holy spirit

Rorate Caeli put up a diatribe against Pope Francis.

After their informant rants like all the fires of hell against the anointed of the Lord with all sorts of innuendos (and one should be careful about that), the ultimate statement to which everything culminates in all ferocious spittle-flecked fury is this:

“He has no manners to honor the Pontifical Throne.”

Really? :) That’s like me! I would be such a donkey, braying badly. Shucks.

It’s almost as if to say, it seems: “Damned be the Holy Spirit, who has no power to work on anyone, ever, and so we are in bitter despair!”

One should be careful about this knee-jerk reactionary rubbish. It does the Church and the salvation of souls no good, no good at all.

Let us pray! With enthusiasm!

UPDATE: Also, just to say, if a priest came to me with that much bitterness, he would be the very last one I would want for a face for the Extraordinary Form. Of course, I would know that that would make him all the more bitter, but that wouldn’t be my fault. I would want to have any priest who offers the Extraordinary Form be helpful and enthusiastic in every way. That makes things easy. But with this kind of attitude. Just. No. If we want the Extraordinary Form everywhere, don’t do something like Rorate Caeli just did, striking out right from the get-go. That’s just not the way to go about things. Really. I know. I’ve been in extremely difficult situations in Lourdes, etc., but got the TLM going there, also in the Josephinum. But these guys…? Just. Wow.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Worship
KEYWORDS: bergoglio; catholic; conclave; traditionalists
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To: Romulus
If you’re Catholic and don’t know what “rorate caeli” means, you are out of touch with your own liturgical heritage.

Baptized Catholic, raised Pentecostal Christian, public school kid. Latin seemed like a waste 57 years ago, since nobody outside of the liturgy speaks it any more. Married Catholic (to a former nun), choir member and occasional cantor when needed.

I believe that God looks upon the heart rather than upon the form of worship, so long as you accept Christ.

41 posted on 03/15/2013 12:40:22 PM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: JimRed

Jesus said that if we love him, we must keep his commandments. He also said that he who hears the apostles hears Him and the Father. Catholic bishops are the designated successors of the apostles, and therefore speak for them — something no one else can claim. If you accept Christ there are consequences for the way you live, including the way you worship. Faith without works is dead — and dead faith saves nobody.

Life is short, and eternity is forever. Come home to the Catholic Church.


42 posted on 03/15/2013 1:34:59 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; NYer
Thanks for your comments on this thread. I was happy to see yours over at Rorate Caeli yesterday, Brian, and appreciated very much your reply to LovedSinner, NYer.

I'm one of those who's wary in the extreme but having caught his first appearance and blessing live, my heart's been full of joy from the get-go and I continue to be impressed by what I'm reading. Very hopeful.


43 posted on 03/15/2013 8:55:30 PM PDT by Askel5 († Truth suffers, but never dies -- Teresa of Avila †)
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To: ELS; Romulus

Hey you two! Hope all is well with you both.

Ran into Fr. Klores Saturday evening and I was hoping your Mom would stop for coffee on Epiphany, Romulus. Please give her my best.


44 posted on 03/15/2013 9:04:20 PM PDT by Askel5 († Truth suffers, but never dies -- Teresa of Avila †)
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To: Askel5

Wow! Good to see you around.


45 posted on 03/15/2013 9:07:50 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Askel5

I will, and please greet yours for me. Best regards.


46 posted on 03/16/2013 8:03:24 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: NYer

The “rad trads” are a tiny minority compared to the destructive force of the “progressives” or “CINO’s” (as sometimes called here).

While I agree that bashing the pope on his first day is over-reacting, keep in mind the position of the trads in the Church - when people are backed into a corner, they tend to get defensive.

These people have stayed true to the Church their whole lives thru constant turmoil and outright contradictions from their priests and bishops. Or if younger they have come to traditionalism thru conversion or discovery.

These are often the people living most faithfully according to Church teaching, are active in pro-life, and are rearing several children (often on one salary) that are the only hope for the Church’s future.

Yet they are often treated like freaks and weirdos, including by priests, even for something as simple as showing up at a Novos Ordo wearing a simple veil. I can see why after Benedict they are a bit wary of a Pope who won’t wear the red shoes! It’s a rash judgment by some, but hey, it’s understandable.

When Brogoglio rides the bus, does he notice the trads are still relegated to the back seat? If he sincerely cares about the “poor and marginalized” consider the spiritual poverty of those deprived of the Mass they love and wish to share with their children.


47 posted on 03/16/2013 9:02:11 PM PDT by baa39 (amdg)
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To: baa39; LovedSinner
These people have stayed true to the Church their whole lives thru constant turmoil and outright contradictions from their priests and bishops.

That is true for me and many others, as well. The difference, however, is that we accepted the liturgical changes, adapted as best as possible, and rose up to challenge those priests and bishops who attempted to introduce novelty. Moreover, we supported those who preferred the traditional form of the liturgy and joined them in celebrating its restoration. We remained faithful to the Vicar of Christ, through this trial and continue to pray for all priests and bishops.

These are often the people living most faithfully according to Church teaching, are active in pro-life, and are rearing several children (often on one salary) that are the only hope for the Church’s future.

Wow! What an arrogant and judgmental statement. Perhaps it has been a while since you have read Luke 15.

Yet they are often treated like freaks and weirdos, including by priests, even for something as simple as showing up at a Novos Ordo wearing a simple veil. I can see why after Benedict they are a bit wary of a Pope who won’t wear the red shoes!

Blessed John Paul II doffed the red shoes. The red color is symbolic. Saints Peter, Paul and Francis wore sandals. Jesus wore simple sandals. Would it offend you if Pope Francis decided to wear sandals? Your comments reflect a desire to see the pope dressed in the "trappings" of office that evolved over the centuries. If the pope does not show up in brocade vestments on Tuesday, will traditionalists be upset?

Consider that when St. Francis wanted approval for his brotherhood, he went straight to Rome to see Pope Innocent III. You can imagine what the pope thought when this beggar approached him! As a matter of fact he threw Francis out. But when he had a dream that this tiny man in rags held up the tilting Lateran basilica, he quickly called Francis back and gave him permission to preach. "Preach the Gospel; if necessary use words!" (no mention of elaborate vestments)

When Brogoglio rides the bus, does he notice the trads are still relegated to the back seat? If he sincerely cares about the “poor and marginalized” consider the spiritual poverty of those deprived of the Mass they love and wish to share with their children.

No pope will step into office, wave his hand and declare that the Novus Ordo liturgy is abolished. As Catholics we are very blessed to have 22 churches in which to celebrate our faith. A Roman rite Catholic may attend any Eastern Catholic Liturgy and fulfill his or her obligations at any Eastern Catholic Parish. A Roman rite Catholic may join any Eastern Catholic Parish and receive any sacrament from an Eastern Catholic priest, since all belong to the Catholic Church as a whole. I am a Roman Catholic practicing my faith at a Maronite Catholic Church. To learn more about the "two lungs" of the Catholic Church, visit this link:

CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES

48 posted on 03/17/2013 5:43:14 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer
UPDATE: Rorate Caeli’s diatribe against Pope Francis [Catholic Caucus]
Pope Francis: A Disappointment for Catholics Who Don't Like Being Catholic
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HABEMUS PAPAM!!! (Live Thread)

49 posted on 03/18/2013 4:01:02 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

WHAT?!? You are reading things into my words.

I don’t know where you got the idea I was advocating abolishing the Novus Ordo! Seems to me you are being just as judgmental as you accuse me of being.

You are fortunate to be able to “receive any sacrament” from a variety of Catholic Churches. You are wrong that any Catholic has that option.

I live in a Rural area. There is ONE parish within 50 miles of my home, with about 150 members, most over 75. Due to it being a small parish, the bishop has dumped on us an incompetent and abusive priest that his previous parish demanded the bishop remove.

These poor little old devout ladies here are traumatized by the vicious treatment from our priest. Yet get no response to their please to the diocese.

Try putting yourself in my shoes instead of criticizing me. I doubt you can imagine the suffering here, if you’re really a “NYer” - because you live in the center of the world with 100’s of options, and I am at the remote, deserted ends of the earth.


50 posted on 03/19/2013 3:24:59 AM PDT by baa39 (amdg)
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To: baa39
Try putting yourself in my shoes instead of criticizing me. I doubt you can imagine the suffering here, if you’re really a “NYer”

The comment was not meant as a criticism and I apologize if you understood it that way. As for placing myself in your shoes, I have been there. The RC diocese in which I reside has been run by one of the most progressive bishops in the US. In the 30+ years of his service, he has 'wreckovated' churches; those that did not comply, were closed. In my city, there were 6 RC parishes. The bishop announced they needed to review their finances and give him their recommendations for parish mergers. Despite several parishes being in the black financially, and without visiting any of these parish meetings, he ignored their recommendation, lowered the boom and closed 5 parishes and one school. These faithful catholics were so angry that many joined an Evangelical church. Insofar as priestly formation, when candidates presented themselves they were asked for their view on women's ordination. Those young men who cited the papal decree prohibiting the ordination of women, were turned away. As a result, the majority of priests in this diocese have continued to serve, well into their 80's. Some parishes have been turned over to "Lay Ecclesial Ministers" (in several instances, women religious). They now rely on a priest to visit during the week to consecrate a sufficient number of hosts for their Sunday 'priestless' service. One woman who occasionally drives 2 hours to attend mass in our church, just advised us that 5 of the 6 priests in the surrounding parishes where she resides, are retiring this summer. Believe me, you have my sympathy!

I live in a Rural area. There is ONE parish within 50 miles of my home, with about 150 members, most over 75. Due to it being a small parish, the bishop has dumped on us an incompetent and abusive priest that his previous parish demanded the bishop remove.

This is a painful situation. On the one hand, Rejoice!, at least you have a priest to celebrate mass on Sunday and not a nun or lay person leading the congregation in a prayer service. I don't know the situation with your seminary or how many priests are in your diocese to serve the needs of the catholic community at large. There are some options and, If you would like to discuss these, it would be better to do so via freepmail. I look forward to hearing from you.

51 posted on 03/19/2013 9:21:49 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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