Finally you admit the words of the mormonism leaders are unreliable.
Please, provide what is posted directly from mormonism leader’s own words is incorrect.

denigrating people of faith

As a Christian, you should understand the dangers of the Mormon faith and be ready to profess the words of the Gospel and how they directly contradict the beliefs of the Mormon church.

Nice people aside, the church they are in is not a Christian church. Nothing Colofornian cited above is denigrating but simply information you may just disagree with.

Regards

So teppe, how about FOR ONCE, post facts, evidence or logic that demonstrates a falsehood presented here.

I’ve yet to see you do it. Why not go for it?

“As a Christian and a non-Mormon, I fail to see what your purpose is in denigrating people of faith whose mode of worship differs from yours..”

As a Christian and a non-Mormon, I fail to see why you would be offended at the accurate exposure of a religion that actively teaches against Christ.

If the truth is not important to you, if a religion that denies Jesus Christ and thus damns men is not important to you, how can you claim to be a Christian?

Martin Luther has a response for you, Erasmus!

“In a word, these declarations of yours amount to this — that, with you, it matters not what is believed by any one, any where, if the peace of the world be but undisturbed; and if every one be but allowed, when his life, his reputation, or his interest is at stake, to do as he did, who said, “If they affirm, I affirm, if they deny, I deny:” and to look upon the Christian doctrines as nothing better than the opinions of philosophers and men: and that it is the greatest of folly to quarrel about, contend for, and assert them, as nothing can arise therefrom but contention, and the disturbance of the public peace: “that what is above us, does not concern us.” This, I say, is what your declarations amount to. — Thus, to put an end to our fightings, you come in as an intermediate peace-maker, that you may cause each side to suspend arms, and persuade us to cease from drawing swords about things so absurd and useless.

What I should cut at here, I believe, my friend Erasmus, you know very well. But, as I said before, I will not openly express myself. In the mean time, I excuse your very good intention of heart; but do you go no further; fear the Spirit of God, who searcheth the reins and the heart, and who is not deceived by artfully contrived expressions. I have, upon this occasion, expressed myself thus, that henceforth you may cease to accuse our cause of pertinacity or obstinacy. For, by so doing, you only evince that you hug in your heart a Lucian, or some other of the swinish tribe of the Epicureans; who, because he does not believe there is a God himself, secretly laughs at all those who do believe and confess it. Allow us to be assertors, and to study and delight in assertions: and do you favour your Sceptics and Academics until Christ shall have called you also. The Holy Spirit is not a Sceptic, nor are what he has written on our hearts doubts or opinions, but assertions more certain, and more firm, than life itself and all human experience.”
~ On the Bondage of the Will

“Yes, I am LDS and I guarantee that any information you get from Colofornian is the same objectivity that you’ll get about Jews from the Muslim Brotherhood.”

Comparing Freepers to the Muslim Brotherhood... Nice.

“It is also a place where you can go and leave the outside world behind to feel the Holy Ghost and the Love of God.”

All I have to do is pray, and God the Holy Spirit who loves me is immediately attentive to my trouble anywhere, at any time.

But frankly, if Christian churches in general were more like lodge, they’d be a lot better off.

In what way?

As a Christian and a non-Mormon, I fail to see what your purpose is in denigrating people of faith whose mode of worship differs from yours...

It appears that you are a very UNINFORMED christian...

Acts 17:18-19
18. A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
19. Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

Acts 18:11
So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

1 Corinthians 4:17
For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

1 Corinthians 11:2
2. I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings, just as I passed them on to you.

Ephesians 4:14-15
14. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
15. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.

1 Timothy 1:3-4
3. As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
4. nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

1 Timothy 1:7
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1 Timothy 2:7
And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

1 Timothy 4:1-2
1. The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
2. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

1 Timothy 4:6
If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

1 Timothy 4:11
Command and teach these things.

1 Timothy 6:3-5
3. If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4. he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5. and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

2 Timothy 1:13
What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:15-17
15. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
16. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
17. Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17. so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Titus 1:11
They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

Titus 2:1
You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

Titus 2:15
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

Hebrews 13:9
Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

2 Peter 2:1-3
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

2 John 1:10
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

As a Christian and a non-Mormon, I fail to see what your purpose is in denigrating people of faith whose mode of worship differs from yours...

There's been a LOT of that going around...

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]
Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.
Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.
As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.
Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]
Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.
Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.
Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.
Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, look to Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, whom they consider Divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. (Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.
Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

ooooh...you dun it now

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice.

Whatever HAPPENED to Emma???

Eliza was a devout Mormon.

At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma).

In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and

knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.

Wow!!

I guess ol' Emma got VAPORIZED by GOD!!!

We know that multiply him thing sure didn't work out!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

On FR, we get to see take-downs of Mormonism, Scientology, Catholicism (rarely) and Islam. Keep it up! P>And we do it using their OWN words!

Is this a great country or WHAT!!

“many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into...”

Sometimes they just rest on the gtound...

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 16

The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.

2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ^ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the ^bguilty taketh the ^ctruth to be hard, for it ^dcutteth them to the very center.

3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might ^awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.

5 And it came to pass that they did ^ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the ^avalley which he called Lemuel.

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the ^adaughters of Ishmael to ^bwife; and also, my brethren took of the ^cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also ^dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the ^acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.

9 And it came to passthat the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ^ajourney into the wilderness.

10 And it came to passthat as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ^aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one ^bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

11 And it came to passthat we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take ^aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.

12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.

13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place ^aShazer.

14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the ^aRed Sea.

15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, ^aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

16 And we did follow the ^adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.

17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine ^asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.

20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did ^amurmur against the Lord.

21 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their ^asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.

22 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto ^acomplaining against the Lord their God.

23 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did ^amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my ^bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?

24 And it came to pass that he did ^ainquire of the Lord, for they had ^bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.

25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly ^achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.

26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.

27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were ^awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the ^afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.

29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us ^aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by ^bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.

30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the ^adirections which were given upon the ball.

31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild ^abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.

32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained ^afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.

33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

34 And it came to pass that ^aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called ^bNahom.

35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did ^amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their ^bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did ^cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.

36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to ^areturn again to Jerusalem.

37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us ^aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ^bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.

38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that ^aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman ^bstir up their hearts to ^canger.

39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did ^achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

Well called. Good guess, only off by one.

I certainly have had my disputes with Mormons here on FR but I too see no reason to belittle them....

You'll just let their arrogance and ignorance slide by?

lets stop being the constant haters....we can't hate everyone...

What flavor was the koolaid?

Show some HATE or be considered Yet Just Another Non-mormon MORMONism Supporter:

YJANM

Yes, I am LDS and I guarantee that any information you get from Colofornian is the same objectivity that you’ll get about Jews from the Muslim Brotherhood.

Then correct the error you see and quit whining.

Fill in the spots that are left out of the MORMON story. Point out the wrong data.

We'll be waiting...

I have been to various LDS temples many times through my life and it is a peaceful activity devoted to our ancestors in conformance with 1st Corinthians 15:29

What is baptism for the dead mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:29?

by Matt Slick http://carm.org/baptism-for-the-dead-in-1-corinthians-15-29

"Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?" (1 Cor. 15:29, NASB).

Numerous explanations have been offered for this verse, ranging from the inane to the sophisticated. Mormonism (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), in particular, has claimed that this verse supports their view of baptism for the dead. In their practice, individuals go to their local Mormon temple, dress appropriately for a baptism, representatively adopt the name of a person who has died, and then the Mormon is baptized in water for that deceased person. This way, the dead person has fulfilled the requirements of salvation in the afterworld and can enjoy further spiritual benefits in the spiritual realm.

But, the Mormons are incorrect. They have usurped this verse and taken it out of context. So, let's examine 1 Cor. 15 briefly so we can see what Paul is talking about when he mentions baptism for the dead.

In verses 1-19, the fact of Christ's resurrection is detailed by Paul. Beginning in verse 20 and going through verse 23, Paul speaks about the order of the resurrection. Christ was the first one raised - in a glorified body - and next will be those who are His at His return. Verses 24 - 29 then mention Christ's reign and the abolition of death. This is when this controversial verse occurs: "Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?"

Just north of Corinth was a city named Eleusis. This was the location of a pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. This religion was mentioned by Homer in Hymn to Demeter 478-79.1 The Corinthians were known to be heavily influenced by other customs. After all, they were in a large economic area where a great many different people frequented. It is probable that the Corinthians were being influenced by the religious practices found at Eleusis where baptism for the dead was practiced.

Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, "...if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say we.2

This is significant because the Christian church was not practicing baptism for the dead, but the pagans were.

Paul's point was simple. The resurrection is a reality. It is going to happen when Jesus returns. Even the pagans believe in the resurrection, otherwise, why would they baptize for the dead?

However, some are not convinced by this argument and state that the word "they" is not in the Greek and, therefore, Paul is not speaking about the pagans. Let's take a look.

Literally, the verse is translated as "Since what will do the being immersed on behalf of the dead if wholly dead not are raised why also are they immersed on behalf of them."

The issue here is the word, "baptizontai" -- "they are baptized." It is the present, passive, indicative, 3rd person, plural. In other words, it is THEY ARE BEING BAPTIZED or, THEY ARE BAPTIZED.

I -- first person singular
you (singular) -- second person singular
he/she/it -- third person singular
we -- first person plural
you (plural) -- second person plural
they -- third person plural

It is the latter form, the third person plural (they) in which the verb "baptizo" is found. Therefore, the best translation is "THEY are baptized."

Colofornian and her ilk of self-appointed Non-Denomination Inquisitors excell at smears, inuendo, and distortion.

Ok; the jury has heard your accustation.

Now then; where is your EVIDENCE of such a claim??

In God’s Temple in the Hebrew Scriptures, He specified in detail how His Temple should look.

Check 'em out!

http://www.google.com/search?q=mormon+temples&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&rlz=1I7ADRA_enUS475&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=XXtCUaG8GofVyAG914G4BQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=577

Whitewashed sepulchers come to my mind...

Most of my “charitable contributions” are also directly to my church, and mostly pay the salary of my pastor, and the cost of the building we use.

NOW you've done it!

A mormon will now state - proudly - that THEIR 'preachers' receive NO money for what they do...

And perhaps state that 'christian' preachers are hirelings of SATAN!

DATE & PLACE	LDS TEMPLE FACTOID	SOURCE LINKS
1. OVERARCHING INTRO	What's involved with LDS temple rituals?	The Secret LDS Temple Ceremony [Mormonism/Anti-Christian]
HISTORY OF LDS TEMPLE FACTS
2. May, 1842: Nauvoo, IL	Masonic influences in temple ceremony after Joseph Smith rec'd a Mason's degree March 16, 1842	Masonic Influence in the Endowment Ceremony + Masonry/Temple + MASONRY & THE MORMON TEMPLE CEREMONY + Top 10 Mormon Problems (see #10) + Sandra Tanner on Mormon Temples
Temple Occultic Occurrences, Manifestations & Hauntings:
3. March 27, 1836 Kirtland, Ohio Temple Lds abandoned in the 1830s	Strange visions Temple dedications were often the scenes of such mysterious occurrences. Joseph Smith wrote of "many strange visions" that were seen when the first temple was dedicated at Kirkland, Ohio on 27 March 1836. It was noted that men would run about "under the influence," while others would "speak in a muttering, unnatural voice and their bodies [would] be distorted...." (Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 1 April 1842, page 747) Smith wrote: "Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland...many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 213-214) What kinds of "ridiculous things?" The records of early Mormonism are replete with accounts of activity from the spirit world. According to John Whitmer, who was the official Church Historian in Joseph Smith's time, some converts to the new religion would "act like an Indian in the act of scalping," or would "slide or scoot on the floor with the rapidity of a serpent...." During the ordination ceremony of Harvey Whitlock as a high priest in 1831, he was seen to have "turned as black as Lyman was white," his fingers "were set like claws," and, unable to speak, he went about the room with eyes "as the shape of oval Os...." On another occasion, one man, who weighed over 200 pounds, was thrown through the air by an unseen force, and another "began screaming like a panther...." 46. John Whitmer, John Whitmer's History (Salt Lake City, Utah: Modern Microfilm Company, n.d.), Chapter Six.	GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism + GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism (original source)
4. 1870s St. George, Utah Temple	The dead Founding Fathers appeared in the temple? Supposedly the spirits of the signers of the Declaration of Independence -- with George Washington -- appeared to Lds would-be “prophet” Wilford Woodruff. Is the temple haunted? Were these indeed ghosts of the signers? Could they have been demons in disguise as ghosts? Or was the one even contemporary Mormons appeal to as the "authoritative" voice of God on polygamy vs. monogamy perhaps given to wild religious fantasies? Furthermore, does the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints play down this occultic episode as being just a small event in the life of Woodruff? Or are the sources questionable? The answer to these last two questions is: Not at all.In fact anybody can go to Lds.org and find Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, where they would see a lesson plan that actually plays it up and highlights Woodruff's claims...giving credence that contemporary Mormons buy into it! – (see The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers) Within the lesson plan detailing the account, Mormon church curricula writers then have their teachers ask the question: What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.) So official Mormon church teachings actually present the account of such occultic ghostly/potentially demonic encounters as anecdotal evidence of baptizing dead spirits! Furthermore, BYU also includes the account as part of their curricula for incoming freshmen who have taken their "Religious Education Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)" course. (See next column for secondary source, which provides primary sources)	Lds Temple Haunted? Did Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to leader? [Vanity]
5. April 1877 Manti, Utah Temple	Mormon writer Joseph Heinerman described such things as personages of light, auras of light around some of the speakers, strange music, and other manifestations during the dedication of the Mormon temple in Manti, Utah. (See link next column + Greg Loren Durand 1995-2005 Crown Rights Book Company, citing Joseph Heinerman, Spirit World Manifestations: Accounts of Divine Aid in Genealogical and Temple Work and Other Assistance to Latter-day Saints (Salt Lake City, Utah: Joseph Lyon and Associates, 1986), pages 94-97. (If one says "Well, that was 133 years ago" note that these anecdotal ghost stories are ones BYU professors feel are worth including in their class student syllabus, in the 1960s, or 1970: Charles R. Woodbury noted during one of the "fast food" baptisms for the dead that Mormons were doing in Manti that day (300 of them), he noted the following: ...let us review a journal entry written by Charles R. Woodbury after he had “witnessed 300 baptisms one day” in the Manti Temple: As a name was called out for baptism, a voice said to me, “This person has had the Gospel taught them and is converted and is ready for baptism.” Another name would be called out, “This person’s never heard the Gospel yet.” Another name would be called, “This person’s heard the Gospel and is not converted.” I sat there in that condition and witnessed 300 baptisms. I knew everyone of them that had accepted it and those that didn’t…25 out of the 300 weren’t ready for it. They weren’t converted and ready for the work. The rest of them, the other 275 were prepared and rejoiced that their work was being done. This is the testimony that I have to show people that the departed spirits know and appreciate when their work is done in the Temple, so they can enjoy the blessings of the Gospel (Woodbury, 1970, p. 19). (For source, see second link in next column)	GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism + Religious Education C261 Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy) p. 57
6. Spring 1893 Salt Lake City Temple opening	Mormons claim that when they opened their temple in the Spring of 1893, "Some Latter-day Saints saw...past Presidents of the Church and other deceased Church leaders." (Our Heritage: A Brief History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1996, p. 1020	Official Lds church source: Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996
7. Open House start date April 3, 1993 San Diego, CA Temple	Visitations by the dead: Prior to the dedication of the San Diego temple, local Mormon families were given a packet entitled Family Temple Preparation Material. Included in this written material were about seven pages devoted to "true stories" of temple patrons who were visited by the dead	They see dead people?
OTHER TEMPLE OCCULTIC COMPONENTS
8. Other Occultic Elements	Temple oaths, secrets, secret tokens/passwords to heaven revealed + 'Is Lucifer the god of the Mormon temple?' In the temple ceremony up through April 1990, why did the Lds temple ritual have Lucifer answer prayers in the temple? (In a presentation of Adam praying 'Oh God hear the words of my mouth' three times Lucifer answers and promises to answer for the father Adam was praying unto)	Mitt Romney's Mormon Secrets [Temple oaths, secrets, secret tokens/passwords to heaven revealed] + Is Lucifer the god of the Mormon Temple? [The OTHER World Series]
9. 1927 Salt Lake City, UT	Lds temple ceremony ritualistic changes ( Why change something 'direct from Mormon god?') included removing an oath of vengeance against the United States – an oath they were swearing to retain up thru the 3rd and 4th generations...meaning we are STILL in that time period of 3-4 generations removed from the mid-1920s	Temple Ritual Changed...Again + Only The Latest In A Long Line: Temple Ceremony Changes Through History + Why the need for secret death oaths in the LDS Temple Endowment Ceremony? [Secretive Mormon church] + Sandra Tanner on Mormon Temples + Top 10 Mormon Problems (see #10)
10. April 1990 Salt Lake City, UT	More Lds temple ceremony ritualistic changes (Again, why change something 'direct from Mormon god?'): “In 1982 The God Makers film reenacted some of the most occult elements in the [Lds temple] endowment. The later film, The Temple of the God Makers, went even deeper. Telling many of the scenes shown are the very ones now inexplicably missage. The changes include the elimination of the following: 1. The chanting of the words pay lay ale, which temple patrons were told came from the ancient 'Adamic language' and meant 'O God, hear the words of my mouth.' 2. A portion of the ceremony in which a Protestant preacher is portrayed as a hireling of Lucifer. He is paid to preach the gospel of salvation by the grace and omnipresence and omnipotence of God the Father to 'Adam and his prosperity.' 3. The penalty signs which portray the temple patron having their throat slit, their heart ripped out, or their belly torn open for revealing the secrets of the temple rite. 4. Women in the temple having to veil their faces in prayer. 5. Women in the temple swearing a covenant to obey their husbands as God. 6. The Masonic 'five points of fellowship' and the embrace with 'the Lord' through the veil in order to gain admittance to the Celestial Room and the presence of Heavenly Father. 7. The use of female veil workers at the veil, representing mother goddesses, to embrace the women temple patrons and bring them through to the Celestial Room.” (Ed Decker, Decker's Complete Handbook of Mormonism, p. 396, Harvest House)	Temple Ritual Changed...Again + Only The Latest In A Long Line: Temple Ceremony Changes Through History + Why the temple ceremony was changed in 1990 - LDS-Mormon + Sandra Tanner on Mormon Temples + Top 10 Mormon Problems (see #10)
NECRO BAPTISMS
11. April, 1995	Lds Church covenants with Jews to stop Lds baptisms of Jewish Holocaust Victims – a covenant not kept	A Chronicle of the Mormon/Jewish Controversy: The Issue of The Mormon Baptisms of Jewish Holocaust Victims and Other Jewish Dead+ Anne Frank, a Mormon? + * Anne Frank has been posthumously baptized (Mormon) + Elie Wiesel calls for Romney’s help to end Mormons’ proxy baptisms of Jews
12. Various Lds Temples	Who Knew They were 'Mormons'? A Look @ Controversial 'Who's Who' among the dead who the Mormons have 'baptized'	LDS Struggle to Keep Proxy Baptisms Appropriate + Here Are 10 Famous People Posthumously Baptized By Mormons [Business Insider] + Baptism for the Dead - People
13. March 15, 2000: Jordan River Temple, South Jordan, UT	Lds temple seals deceased Roman Catholic priest to nun (Lds' controversial practice of 'sealing' the dead in marriage)	Mormons even marry the dead by proxy (Vanity: The OTHER World Series) + Newest Catholic saint baptized and 'sealed' to wife in LDS temple? + Hemings and Jefferson Together Forever? Troubling cases of Mormon “proxy sealing” + What is an LDS Church /Mormon temple marriage/sealing?
14. All Lds Temples	*Mormon theological claim that Mormons themselves* are literal saviors of the dead**	Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others? (The OTHER World Series: Vanity)
THEOLOGICAL WRAP-UP
15. Is all this 'temple' stuff revealed in the Book of Mormon?	Does the BoM "enlighten" us about baptism for the dead or any temple rite or work? (No) Then what "lens" does it offer us? What about physical temples at all? (No) It doesn't tell us about ANY rituals done, nor does it offer us "additional" views about God or "the Mormon gods"...nor anything about the Aaronic priesthood, let alone anything "new"... nor does it tell us anything about baptism for the dead, let alone anything "new" about it...nor does the BoM tell us how to become a god, let alone anything "new" about it... nor does it tell us how to eternally progress unto godhood, let alone anything "new" about it...

15 occultic and controversial facts you may want to know about Lds temples

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

What is baptism for the dead mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:29?