Posted on 04/13/2013 2:54:16 PM PDT by NYer
VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- The Catholic faith is not centered simply on a book -- the Bible -- but on Jesus Christ, the Word of God made flesh, Pope Francis said.
"The sacred Scriptures are a written testimony to the divine Word," which came before the Bible and exceeds it, the pope said April 12 during a meeting with members of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, an international body of scholars that advises the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Commission members met at the Vatican April 9-12 to conclude work on a document about inspiration and truth in the Bible, which is likely to be published in the coming months.
Archbishop Gerhard Muller, prefect of the doctrinal congregation and president of the commission, told the pope the aim was to help people interpret the Scriptures "in accordance with the nature" of the Bible itself. The focus on "inspiration," he said, was an attempt to explain the divine origin of the Bible and the focus on "truth" was an attempt to describe what the Bible says "about God and his plan for salvation."
The archbishop said the commission recognized that when the church describes the Scriptures as being divinely inspired and true certain "challenges come from the Bible itself," including when passages seem to contradict scientific or historical evidence.
Another challenge, he said, is posed by "the violence in some passages" that seems to contradict basic Christian teaching and even phrases the Bible attributes directly to Jesus.
The point of the document, he said, is to help Catholics "overcome both fundamentalism and skepticism."
Pope Francis said the themes of biblical inspiration and truth are important not only for individual believers, "but for the whole church because its life and mission are based on the Word of God, who animates theology and inspires all of Christian existence."
Interpreting the Bible in an honest and authentic way means respecting its nature and recognizing its purpose, the pope said.
"The texts inspired by God were entrusted to the community of believers, the church of Christ, to increase the faith and guide the life of charity," he said. It is only with the assistance of the Holy Spirit and with full respect for the tradition and teaching of the church that the Scriptures' true meaning can be understood.
‘No one has said that those in heaven can’t communicate with each other’
If Moses and Elijah are alive in heaven, then communicating with them isn’t communicating with the dead.
There is no communication there. They hold the bowls of incense which are the prayers of the saints. So they hold the repository of the incense which were prayers to the Father. Your attempt does not answer the question.
Stop using crude words for The Body of Christ, and I might believe you have a relationship with Jesus. As it stands, I don’t see it.
Nice try at a technicality but they are not on this earth either. Nor are we to communicate with them as indicated by Jesus words at His ascension.
Nice try at a technicality but they are not on this earth either. Nor are we to communicate with them as indicated by Jesus words at His ascension.
The disciples could see and hear them so technically they were on Earth. :)
If they are alive in heaven, then so are the rest of the saints.
You said, “only those on earth are alive”
Here’s how it works.
1. Moses and Elijah were alive at the transfiguration.
2. Moses and Elijah were in heaven.
Ergo -
Moses and Elijah were alive in heaven and are saint. Which is exactly what I said. We can talk to them.
Does this mean that Catholics are going to start reading the Bible? Because if SO- then I like this pope.
And instead of a ouiji board you use beads?
I’m so sorry you don’t see it. Fortunately, you didn’t die for my sins. I will pray that God will open your spiritual eyes. To LOTS of truths you don’t seem to “see”.
**Then show me where the bible says she died.**
So Joseph didn’t die either?
**So it stands to reason then that she would be spared from Sin - such that her son would have a human nature free from sin.**
Stands to reason? By whose standards? By your and your church’s reasoning, Mary’s father and mother would have had to have been sinless to be able to pass that phenonenom on to her. And the grandparents, and the great grandparents.....
Me thinks your reasoning stumbles at what you are interpreting ‘full of grace’ to really means. But, when it comes to the blood, the mother does not share the same literal blood with the child in the womb.
**Where does Paul say this?**
Well, he put a curse on the jew, false prophet Barjesus, in Acts 13. And warned in chap 20:29, 30 of such false teachers entering in, or arising from among the followers he met with at Miletus. He, James, John, Peter, and Jude all warned of the present and future danger of false teachers.
False doctrine wasn’t something that the Devil waited a hundred years or more to unleash. He possibly wasn’t quite ready to deal with what happened on Pentecost, but no doubt was busy launching confusion and deception about it within hours. It’s quite likely that there were some pilgrims that were in Jerusalem for Pentecost, that were not first hand witnesses to the upper room event. How many heard about the phenonenom second or third hand, didn’t have it quite right, yet went home to their native country believing they were able to declare the message? I liken people like that to Ahimaaz the messenger, who was not a first hand witness to the death of Absalom. Joab told him he didn’t have any tidings to deliver, yet he went forth anyway.
**What book do you consult if you want to know what the Church teaches. On anything?**
Acts through Revelation works quite nicely. Of those books, only Acts makes mention of Mary by name (tarrying in the upper room for the Holy Ghost).
Your hate for the Catholic Church (calling the Eucharist a “wafer”) could not be more apparent, and because of it, your Christianity is invisible (certainly to a Catholic who loves Jesus in the Eucharist).
“So Joseph didn’t die either?”
You are arguing, “I knew she died”. So how do you know she died? What evidence is there for your position?
Are you admitting you are arguing from silence?
We know that Peter and Paul were crucified. Beyond that, Scripture says nothing.
“Stands to reason? By whose standards?”
Mary as the second eve? Tertullian sufficient reasoning for you? Mary was free from sin as Eve was originally.
“Mary’s father and mother would have had to have been sinless to be able to pass that phenonenom on to her.”
Ahh, the Turtles all the way down hypothesis.
Not so. Who made Mary sinless? Jesus or her mother?
“Me thinks your reasoning stumbles at what you are interpreting ‘full of grace’ to really means”
So tell me, what does full of grace ‘really mean’. Can one be in a state of sin and still ‘full of grace?’.
“But, when it comes to the blood, the mother does not share the same literal blood with the child in the womb.”
The child does inherit his nature from his mother and his father. In Christ’s example, he inherited his mothers human nature from her, just like anyone else.
In order to preserve Christ’s human nature - he must have been spared from sin. So unless you believe that Mary simply was a vessel for Christ, and that Christ wasn’t truly, her son, then that leads to the inescapable conclusion that Mary must have been sinless to convey a sinless human nature to Christ.
“false teachers.”
Which is a circular argument. Arguing that the theology is false requires you to show that it actually is false not just claim so.
“How many heard about the phenonenom second or third hand,”
We have the primary witnesses, and none of the witnesses testify to your thesis that there is a priesthood of all believers. They instead testify that there existed the 500, who saw Christ in the flesh and that they held a higher status (according to Paul), within the early Church - because they were eyewitnesses to Christ.
**What book do you consult if you want to know what the Church teaches. On anything?**
“Acts through Revelation works quite nicely.”
I wasn’t asking about your church. I was asking about the Catholic church.
“Of those books, only Acts makes mention of Mary by name (tarrying in the upper room for the Holy Ghost).”
So, are you saying she only did what was recorded? The bible doesn’t claim that for Christ let alone Mary.
No, I get up and I say, as for right now,
“Ste Therese. Pray for me. :)
Martin Luther rated a pose on the front of a cereal box? That’s a step up imo.
You showed no scriptural evidence for your case, but I needed to?
**Peter and Paul were crucified**
The Lord foretold Peter's form of death. Historians claim Paul was beheaded. That has no bearing on the doctrines of the Lord, so I don't occupy much times worrying about it.
**Mary as the second eve? Tertullian sufficient reasoning for you? Mary was free from sin as Eve was originally.**
Chapter and verse please. I pay no heed to Tertullian. While you think you know, Mary KNEW her ‘low estate’, and after her giving birth, offered the gifts required by the Law for her cleansing.
While it was Eve that first sinned, Adam is blamed for sin entering the world. God the Father IS the father of the Christ, and is therefore able to pass along his sinlessness to his Son.
**So tell me, what does full of grace ‘really mean’. Can one be in a state of sin and still ‘full of grace?’.**
Paul put this way: “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us”. That's grace; unmerited favor.
**The child does inherit his nature from his mother and his father. In Christ’s example, he inherited his mothers human nature from her, just like anyone else.**
He inheritted her mortal qualities: hunger, thirst, grew weary, and died. God raised him up, not Mary.
**So, are you saying she only did what was recorded?**
The Bible has the complete record of the DOCTRINES of the Lord Jesus Christ. Everything else that just may be true historically is non essential for the salvation of the soul.
You need to read some of the Early Church Fathers to fill in the missing facts.
St. Joseph did die. He is the patron of a happy death, among other things.
Can you imagine dying in the arms of Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary? How glorious.
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