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Our Lady of Fatima and the “Muslim Connection”
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | May 15, 2013 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 05/16/2013 3:59:09 PM PDT by NYer

This past week we celebrated the feast of Our Lady of Fatima. (And, given my mention of Fatima, you may wonder why I have Our Lady of Guadalupe pictured here, but more on that in a moment). But as for Fatima, with all the emphasis on the magnificent teaching and prophetic fulfillment of that apparition, something that has always intrigued me is that she would appear of all places in a town called Fatima. Why Fatima, a town that recalls the daughter of Mohammed?

Indeed, I have often heard that Muslims hold our Blessed Mother Mary in high regard. This reverence may stop short of our devotion but there is said to be a respect for her in the Muslim tradition.

Now, I first learned this from the great Archbishop, Fulton Sheen in his book, The World’s First Love. I read it 25 years ago and have pondered it ever since. I would like to present excerpts from the chapter entitled “Mary and the Moslems” [sic], reflect on its significance and ask a few questions. Please note that the book was written in 1952 and therefore some of the spellings are not the modern ones. Here are the excerpts:

The Koran, which is the Bible of the Moslems, has many passages concerning the Blessed Virgin. First of all, the Koran believes in her Immaculate Conception, and also, in her Virgin Birth…..The Koran also has verses on the Annunciation, Visitation, and Nativity. Angels are pictured as accompanying the Blessed Mother and saying, Oh Mary, God has chosen you and purified you, and elected you above all the women of the earth. In the 19th chapter of the Koran there are 41 verses on Jesus and Mary. There is such a strong defense of the virginity of Mary here that the Koran in the fourth book, attributes the condemnation of the Jews to their monstrous calumny against the Virgin Mary.

Mary, then, is for the Moslems the true Sayyida, or Lady. The only possible serious rival to her in their creed would be Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed himself. But after the death of Fatima, Mohammed wrote: Thou shalt be the most blessed of women in Paradise, after Mary. In a variant of the text Fatima is made to say; I surpass all the women, except Mary.

This brings us to our second point; namely, why the Blessed Mother, in this 20th Century should have revealed herself in the significant little village of Fatima, so that to all future generations she would be known as “Our Lady of Fatima.” Since nothing ever happens out of Heaven except with a finesse of all details, I believe that the Blessed Virgin chose to be known as “Our Lady of Fatima” as pledge and a sign of hope to the Moslem people, and as an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, will one day accept her divine Son too.

Evidence to support these views is found in the historical fact that the Moslems occupied Portugal for centuries. At the time when they were finally driven out, the last Moslem chief had a beautiful daughter by the name of Fatima. A Catholic boy fell in love with her, and for him she not only stayed behind when the Moslems left, but even embraced the Faith. The young husband was so much in love with her that he changed the name of the town where he lived to Fatima. Thus the very place where our Lady appeared in 1917 bears a historical connection to Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed.

Missionaries, in the future will, more and more, see that their apostolate among the Moslems will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima. Mary is the advent of Christ, bringing Christ to the people before Christ himself is born. In any apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which the people already accept. Because the Moslems have devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and develop that devotion, with the full realization that our Blessed Lady will carry the Moslems the rest of the way to her divine Son. She is forever a “traitor,” in the sense that she will not accept any devotion for herself, bit will always bring anyone who is devoted to her to her divine Son.

A beautiful reflection by Archbishop Sheen and one we can surely hope will come to pass. Relations are much more tense however between Christians and Muslims today than in 1952.

This leads to my first question.

Do Muslims today still manifest the reverence to Mary that Sheen described in 1952? I have seen a few people in Muslim garb at the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception here in D.C., but I was not sure if they came to pay homage to Mary or just tour. I think we Catholics ought to be careful before we presume too much of what Muslims today think of Mary. The lines in the Quran quoted by Sheen are impressive but that does not mean that Muslims either know them well or interpret them as we would wish? Hence, I am merely posing a question here. If any of you know of good sources that answer the question of the Muslim stance on Mary I would be grateful if you can point it out. The answer to this question has a lot of bearing on my speculations to follow.

Astonishing Fact – I have already noted that it nothing less than astonishing that Mary should appear in a town called “Fatima.” Surely this is no mere coincidence and, as Sheen aptly points out, heaven does nothing without purpose. That we are not to merely pass over this detail, is very clear to me. “Our Lady of Fatima,” has a different ring when we think that Fatima is more that a place, Fatima is the Daughter of Muhammad, and the greatest woman in Islam. “Our Lady of Fatima” sounds and feels so different when it is heard in this context of person not place. It is hugely significant.

Third Secret of Fatima? For many years, before its revelation, I was sure that the Third Secret of Fatima had something to do with the Muslim question. Frankly I figured it likely described a great conflict with the Muslim world that would arise and lead to great suffering for the Church, even a kind of Babylonian captivity, but that ultimately Mary’s Immaculate Heart would triumph by the power of God. Imagine my chagrin when the third secret was finally revealed with a less than worldwide, apocalyptic content. Granted, the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II was a serious and significant matter but it was less than the worldwide conflict I had expected. It is also true that his would-be assassin was Muslim, but the plot was likely more communist and Russian in origin. In the end my theory was rocked back on its heels and fell flat.

But still we are left with Fatima. Why Fatima? Why a town bearing the namesake of Muhammad’s daughter? It seems clear that Mary will play an important role in the years ahead as the Muslim/Christian conflict likely grows sharper. Perhaps, as Sheen notes, she will be the bridge that connects two vastly different cultures, the common mother who keeps her children talking. Right now this connection seems little pursued, even, as far as I can tell, by the Vatican. But here too allow a question from me. Are there any of you who know if Our Lady of Fatima has any role in Vatican-Muslim dialogue?

The Guadalupe connection – I wonder too if the history of Our Lady of Guadalupe presents some historical parallels to our current struggle with the Muslim world. In the early 16th Century in Mexico, missionaries had made only meager progress in bringing the Aztec people to Christ. It was a combination of the sometimes rude and cruel treatment of the indigenous people by the Spanish soldiers, and also of the fearful superstition surrounding the Aztec gods. These gods required horrific human sacrifices and kept the people locked in with this fear that, unless they fed these gods, their greatest god, the sun, would no longer shine.

Into this fearful and suspicious setting entered Mother Mary. The miraculous image she left in 1531 was richly symbolic: Her face is a mother’s face, gentle and compassionate, unlike the frightful Aztec gods who wore fierce masks. Her features seem to be both an Aztec and European, two cultures are combined in kindness and peace. Her attitude is one of humble prayer, so she is clearly not a god. She is a merciful mother who consoles and prays for us. She is to be honored but not adored. The black band around her waist means that she is with child and offers Jesus to the people. Her message is about him. The sun was the greatest of the Aztec gods and, by standing in front of the sun, Mary shows that she is greater than all their gods. The moon represented to them the god of darkness and death. That she is standing on the moon is a sign that these powers too have been defeated by the son she bears.

Mary brought the breakthrough. Within ten years over 12 million Mexicans came to Christ and entered the Catholic Church.

This history is paralleled in many ways today in the current tensions with the Muslim World. In many Muslim lands today conversions are few. Part of the reason for this is a strong aversion for the western culture from which Catholicism comes. Another reason includes many alleged grievances that Muslims have of American and Western “mistreatment.” Finally, a large factor is fear. Leaving the Muslim faith is likely to get you killed in many parts of the Muslim world. So, it is a combination of a wide cultural gulf, alleged grievances, and fear, that keep conversions low. All not unlike 16th Century Mexico.

Is Mary key? It took Mary to bridge all these similar gaps between the Aztecs and the Christian Missionaries. Might Mary also be that bridge today when similar gaps divide? Time will tell, but one of her greatest Modern titles is Our Lady of Fatima. And then, there is the crescent moon upon which Mary stands in the image of Guadalupe. In modern times the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. Mother Mary of Guadalupe, by God’s grace, was victorious and overcame the false religion of the Aztecs with love and humility.

Might this crescent moon on which Our Lady of Guadalupe stands also point to our times, and the crescent moon of Islam? Might it indicate that her victories, by God’s grace, are not at an end. Perhaps we can hope that what our Lady of Guadalupe was to the Aztec people of Mexico, Our Lady of Fatima will be to the Muslim people of the world.

As always, I invite your comments and answers to my questions.

I also want to invite any of you who would like to accompany me and some other folks from my Parish and Washington DC as we go to Gaudalupe in in October 8-15. For more info contact my parishioner, Deborah Vanzego at dvanzego@cohenmilstein.com or 202-408-4641. We’d love to have you come and still have space available.


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Islam
KEYWORDS: fatima; guadalupe; mohammed; moslems; msgrcharlespope; muslim; muslims; olf; olg; ourladyoffatima; ourladyofguadalupe
Here is the hymn, Immaculate Mary, sung in Arabic: YouTube
1 posted on 05/16/2013 3:59:09 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Ping! Reminder: Christianity was born in the Middle East where Arabic is now the official language of many countries.


2 posted on 05/16/2013 4:00:24 PM PDT by NYer (“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possibl)
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To: NYer

During the 1989 La Loma Prieta San Francisco earthquake, Afghani refugee moslem women were in a house. When the earthquake struck they all ran out and one mother forgot her baby in the house. My ladyfriend, a neighbor, Catholic, rushed into the house and got the baby out. She gave the baby to the moslem mother who immediately made the sign of the cross and said “Virgin Mary helped us!” A true story


3 posted on 05/16/2013 4:14:54 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 (("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.))
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To: NYer
Why, I wonder, did they use an image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, instead of
Our Lady of Fatima? (I apologize for the size of the image.)
4 posted on 05/16/2013 4:18:57 PM PDT by redhead (NO GROUND TO THE DEVIL! Use Weaponized Prayer)
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To: redhead

Read the last half of the article to find the answer to your question.


5 posted on 05/16/2013 4:24:33 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

That’s nice but the bearded savages still go around mutilating women, burning Christian churches, chopping living heads off living bodies, blowing up buildings and parades, and generally acting like subhuman savages.


6 posted on 05/16/2013 4:49:48 PM PDT by I want the USA back (Pi$$ed off yet?)
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To: redhead

The very first paragraph tells you that your question will be answered, six of the last eight answer it.

If I, as an agnostic, can read and benefit from an article about Mary, why can’t you, presumably a Believer, do the same?


7 posted on 05/16/2013 5:02:58 PM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of opression, and the democrats gleefully use them!)
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To: NYer
Imagine my chagrin when the third secret was finally revealed with a less than worldwide, apocalyptic content.

How can any Catholic, clergy or layman, be so impossibly naïve so as to believe that fishwrap story was the real Third Secret?

8 posted on 05/16/2013 5:06:11 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: NYer
but I was not sure if they came to pay homage to Mary or just tour

Don't know about any one particular tourist, but I can tell you that in my wife's native India that it is not at all uncommon for a Muslim to express and demonstrate a real reverence for Mary.

9 posted on 05/16/2013 5:08:41 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: I want the USA back

Maybe Muslims have changed. Today a woman found to be pregnant with no known father would be stoned to death, The same for Fatima who stayed behind and became a Christian. since leaving the Muslim faith is a killing offense.

I always loved Father Sheen and maybe in 1952 his idea’s had merit, I just wonder if they still do.


10 posted on 05/16/2013 5:12:46 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: All
....as for Fatima, with all the emphasis on the magnificent teaching and prophetic fulfillment of that apparition, something that has always intrigued me is that she would appear of all places in a town called Fatima. Why Fatima, a town that recalls the daughter of Mohammed?
On an highly emotional spiritual level there has been a great common-ground meeting place between Rome and Mecca in the town of Fatima in Portugal. To quote a Catholic news organization, "Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed." On October 23, 1995, Iranian television began running stories that the apparitions in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 were religious phenomena of Muslim origin....

....According to Iranian Television, the woman who appeared to the three shepherd children in 1917 was not the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus, but Fatima, the daughter of the prophet Mohammed, founder of Islam. Her message was reported to be "I am Fatima, daughter of the Prophet of Islam." This television report has helped launch the growing waves of Muslim pilgrims who have been visiting this Christian site in Portugal in recent years.
-- From the thread The Papacy and Islam
-- My critique of the article


11 posted on 05/16/2013 5:36:54 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (ue)
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To: NYer

How in Gods name is a murdering pedophile to be venerated and in anyway, shape or form linked to The Virgin Mary!?!. Are you people nuts? Compare the life Jesus led as to the one Mohammed lived. Did Jesus ever do anything any Christian should ever be ashamed of? Muslims aren’t the only ones who can be offended. This abomination offends me beyond words.


12 posted on 05/16/2013 8:49:04 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: null and void; Salvation

“Post in haste, regret at leisure...” I apologize for the hasty post. I got distracted, but did come back later and finish the article (AFTER I posted the dumbness). So, thanks.


13 posted on 05/17/2013 1:29:38 AM PDT by redhead (NO GROUND TO THE DEVIL! Use Weaponized Prayer)
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To: steve86

“... so naive as to believe that fishwrap story was the real Third Secret...?”

I too, don’t believe for a minute that story contained the full third secret. I hadn’t thought of it as pertaining to Islam, before, and find the idea very plausible. I have always leaned toward a prediction of the watering down of church doctrine and liturgy as a result of Vatican II.


14 posted on 05/17/2013 4:27:02 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: stonehouse01

There are no secrets

except the time of HIS return

all this is mysticism and its not Christian


15 posted on 05/17/2013 4:28:35 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: NYer

“Missionaries, in the future will, more and more, see that their apostolate among the Moslems will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima.”

They probably won’t want to mention Our Lady of Victory Lepanto.


16 posted on 05/17/2013 4:47:06 AM PDT by rwa265
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To: stonehouse01; steve86
I too, don’t believe for a minute that story contained the full third secret. I hadn’t thought of it as pertaining to Islam, before, and find the idea very plausible. I have always leaned toward a prediction of the watering down of church doctrine and liturgy as a result of Vatican II.

I've heard all sorts of theories re the supposed "real" contents of the Third Secret, and all of them are apocalyptic in nature. It's the nature of that apocalypse that varies from theory to theory. Papal assassinations, mass apostasy, the rise of communism, and (I am not making this up) warnings about "onanism" to pre-teens.

17 posted on 05/17/2013 6:52:47 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: redhead

LOL! Welcome to the human race, you’ve done it, I’ve done it we’ve all done it one time (or in my case several times) in the past and doubtless will again.

I was a bit snarky. Thank you for being gracious.

So what did you think? I found the concept of Our Lady of Guadalupe eclipsing the sun god and standing on the moon god (I didn’t even know she was standing on the moon!) intriguing. And hopeful.


18 posted on 05/17/2013 7:03:29 AM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of opression, and the democrats gleefully use them!)
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To: jmacusa
How in Gods name is a murdering pedophile to be venerated and in anyway, shape or form linked to The Virgin Mary!?!. Are you people nuts? Compare the life Jesus led as to the one Mohammed lived. Did Jesus ever do anything any Christian should ever be ashamed of? Muslims aren’t the only ones who can be offended. This abomination offends me beyond words.

Assuming Fatima was a woman of virtue, a Mary surrogate if you will, having her come from the loins of Satan's eager minion on earth is a powerfully symbolic act of redemption being possible for the rest of the species.

19 posted on 05/17/2013 7:10:13 AM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of opression, and the democrats gleefully use them!)
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To: null and void

Did the original Fatma become a Christian?


20 posted on 05/17/2013 7:49:38 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl

No idea.


21 posted on 05/17/2013 7:58:52 AM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of opression, and the democrats gleefully use them!)
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To: null and void

Thank-you.


22 posted on 05/17/2013 8:03:22 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: GeronL

Part of the Christian Churches family tree and history.


23 posted on 05/17/2013 8:04:28 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: I want the USA back

But there are those Muslims who do live Islam and become Christian.


24 posted on 05/17/2013 8:05:12 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: rwa265

“They probably won’t want to mention Our Lady of Victory”

In an effort to broker peace on Cyprus between Greeks and Turks, Pope Paul VI returned Muslim banners taken during the battle 400 years earlier. Totally off-topic, but interesting.


25 posted on 05/17/2013 8:45:04 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: null and void
I find it utterly intriguing. And it's interesting to me that in the last year, I have had a renewed devotion to Guadalupe, as she called herself to St. Juan Diego, "Mother of the True God." She is also Patroness of the Americas, and of the Pro-Life movement. (But you knew all that...) We can do worse than honor her, and if we ever needed special spiritual help, we need it now.
26 posted on 05/17/2013 9:13:58 AM PDT by redhead (NO GROUND TO THE DEVIL! Use Weaponized Prayer)
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To: redhead
(But you knew all that...)

No, actually I didn't. Being an agnostic and all, I don't follow the details of any particular religion's beliefs as closely as I might.

We can do worse than honor her, and if we ever needed special spiritual help, we need it now.

Indeed.

27 posted on 05/17/2013 9:33:42 AM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of opression, and the democrats gleefully use them!)
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To: GeronL

“...mysticism and its not Christian...”

Christian and Jewish mysticism are different than pagan mysticism. Scripture says the Father alone knows the time of HIS return - how is that not a secret held by the Father? Of course there are secrets!!!


28 posted on 05/17/2013 11:25:57 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: null and void

I know this is an old thread but I found this link very informative.

http://www.virginmotherofguadalupe.com/our-lady-of-guadalupe-image/message-symbols


29 posted on 05/30/2013 7:43:33 PM PDT by tiki
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To: tiki

Thank you. The image is amazingly dense with symbolism. I had no idea!


30 posted on 05/30/2013 8:38:38 PM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of opression, and the democrats gleefully use them!)
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To: null and void
**amazingly dense with symbolism**

That's what caused so many conversions!

Here is more information about this "huge" miracle:

Science & the Virgin of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
Mary, Mother of Life: Our Lady of Guadalupe (Catholic or Pro-Life Caucus)
Our Lady of Guadalupe - A Mother for us all
A WOMAN AND A DRAGON (Catholic Caucus)
The History of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
Guadalupe: A Living Image (EWTN - Sunday, Sep. 26 at 10 pm) [Catholic Caucus]

Remembering Our Lady of Guadalupe
Catholic Caucus: Our Lady of Guadalupe: She Who Smashes the Serpent
Infamous Hollywood Screenwriter to Pen Film on Our Lady of Guadalupe - Patroness of the Unborn
"Basic Instinct" scribe Eszterhas eyes virgin
Our Lady of Guadalupe ‘completely beyond' scientific explanation, says researcher
Knights of Columbus Congress, Festival for Our Lady of Guadalupe (Catholic Caucus)
The (Miraculous) Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
Remembering Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
Our Lady of Guadalupe Feast: December 12 [Repost]
Brief History of the Apparitions of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]

The History of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Ecumenical]
2 Questions related to Faith & Apologetics. A Feast day & Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
The Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe
Our Lady of Guadalupe called 'Mother Without Borders' in Los Angeles (Catholic Caucus)
Hernándo Cortés and Our Lady
Our Lady of Guadalupe, Patroness of the Church Militant (Catholic Caucus)
Scientists certify Our Lady of Guadalupe tilma
STRANGE LIGHT CLAIMED IN GUADALUPE IMAGE AFTER MEXICO CITY OKAYED ABORTION
STRANGE LIGHT CLAIMED IN GUADALUPE IMAGE AFTER MEXICO CITY OKAYED ABORTION -- posted on News Forum
The Story of Guadalupe: Hope for Our Violent World

Our Lady of Guadalupe: Protectress of the Unborn
Was Our Lady of Guadalupe Wrong?
METHODIST CHURCH DISPLAYS VIRGIN OF GUADALUPE
GUADALUPE DEVOTION IS CROSSING INTO PROTESTANT DENOMINATIONS
A Novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe
Relic From Guadalupe Tilma to Tour U.S.
The Amazing Truth of Our Lady of Guadalupe
Our Lady Of Guadalupe
Celebrating 470 years of an ongoing miracle, the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe 1531
Science Stunned by Virgin of Guadalupe´s Eyes

31 posted on 05/30/2013 8:59:33 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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December 12 - Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe

32 posted on 12/20/2014 6:44:00 PM PST by Coleus
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