Posted on 05/24/2013 2:25:17 AM PDT by DaveMSmith
LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - The Holy Father is full of surprises, born of true and faithful humility. On Wednesday he declared that all people, not just Catholics, are redeemed through Jesus, even atheists.
However, he did emphasize there was a catch. Those people must still do good. In fact, it is in doing good that they are led to the One who is the Source of all that is good. In essence he simply restated the hope of the Church that all come to know God, through His Son Jesus Christ.
Francis based his homily on the message of Christ to his disciples taken from the Gospel of Mark. Francis delivered his message by sharing a story of a Catholic who asked a priest if atheists were saved by Christ.
"They complain," Francis said, "If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good." He explained that Jesus corrected them, "Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good."
The disciples, Pope Francis explained, "were a little intolerant," closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that "those who do not have the truth, cannot do good." "This was wrong... Jesus broadens the horizon." Pope Francis said, "The root of this possibility of doing good - that we all have - is in creation."
"Even them, everyone, we all have the duty to do good, Pope Francis said on Vatican Radio.
"Just do good" was his challenge, "and we'll find a meeting point."
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...
and a normal human would think it good to live by the golden rule, be kind to elderly and children, be a good steward to the earth, be kind to animals, help the needy, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc...the list goes on and on
This is not new doctrine. False, but not new!
Too early for me. I would like to win a gigantic lotto though, and see if it really ruins me or makes me any worse than I already am. I’m hoping I would be able to come up with a couple good things to do...
Matthew 5:22, "Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire"
Jesus says blessed are: first seven Beatitudes - don’t mention anything about what the person believes. He doesn’t say, “blessed are the peacemakers if they belong to the Baptist Church and proclaim Me Savior.” So what’s with that?
Must be one of those new “accommodation” popes bubbling up like so many other church leaders we have seen in the past decade.
The folks that I talk to about this in 12 step programs usually have rejected all religion because of the concept of a punishing, angry and vengeful God who sacrificed His own son for the sin of Adam was shoved down their throats as children. That, and the John Pipers of the world saying the OK tornado was God's wrath. My sister-in-law says hurricane Sandy is the end times. It goes on.
The reality is the Lord is life itself and love itself. By step 2, we use 'power greater then ourselves'... step 3 is a 'God of our understanding'... by step 4, we find that the punishments on ourselves we blamed God for were our own fault. Just read the book of James - the whole concept sprung from there.
I believe that 'knowing Christ' is understanding and accepting a loving God. We repent and make amends. It's a continuous process. I see God working in those rooms every day.
Pride and arrogance? Sure it exists but it can be turned away from. For the willing.
Agreed. There is nothing I despise more lately than the need to clarify what someone else has said. And especially a man of this standing.
“Many are called; few are chosen.”
Most choose not to answer his called in serving others — following the Lord’s example of being a servant to others.
James 2: 17-26 ...A stern warning from Saint James
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
“Regarding the debate about faith and works: It’s like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most important.”
~C.S. Lewis
Seems the author projected his beliefs and took the Pope’s opinion out of context.
Seriously. And I would like to think with all the uproar all over the internet/the media that the Pope would know about it and he/the Vatican itself would clarify.
It’s that important.
Thanks for the link.
However, these apparently "off the cuff" remarks, while not being a formal theological teaching, nor actually stating atheists can work their way to heaven, are nonetheless in error taken at face value.
The fact that Christ died for all does not translate into all being redeemed and thus God being children of God and the father of atheists. Instead, Scripture teaches that before regeneration, all were "children of wrath," (Eph. 2:3)_ and those who are not true Christians are "children of the devil," (1Jn. 3:10) whom the Lord stated the opposing Jews were of. (Jn. 8:44)
In addition, the idea of Francis that the apostles (Mk. 9:38,39; cf. Lk. 9:49,50) “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good,” is not the actual case, as rather than these 3rd party types being portrayed as souls who do not have the truth, they were casting out devils in Jesus name (which did not work for the vagabond Jews in Acts 19:13), and the disciples objection was that they were not physically part of their group. Thus the rebuke of the Lord is against a sectarian spirit rather than correcting the idea that who do not have the truth about Christ cannot go good, which is an extreme that is unlikely the apostles held to.
Moreover, the idea that,
"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can. He must. Not can: must! Because he has this commandment within him; ignores the reality that being made in the image of the Lord, and who died for them, does not mean they must do good. For in dealing with this subject, Paul warns that, contrary to souls "who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality," are souls who "are contentious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness," who shall suffer "indignation and wrath." (Rm. 2:7,8)
Along with this, the idealistic exhortation,
"If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there,”
presumes the atheist has the same basis for doing good, yet his basis is objectively baseless, rejecting any supreme transcendent moral authority which he claims to be bound to, and instead the atheist is the supreme judge, and can easily justify what seems "reasonable" to him . As Mao, Pol Pot and others exampled, doing like and worse than false religion can, as in using the sword against theological dissidents. However, note that DaveMSmith is part of the Swedenborgian cult and which was countered extensively in such threads as here and here (and scroll up both pages) .
Well he is supposed to be the 'last pope'... no telling what's next...
Yeah ‘countered’ by the cult followers of Walter Ralston ‘Doc’ Martin... lol.
The Bible records Jesus as saying "this is the work of God,that ye believe on Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)
In that light,your question sounds like 'what if the atheist doesn't know he's believing on Jesus?"
The woman who was caught in adultery was forgiven by Christ. She fell at His feet drawn by His mercy and goodness. Perhaps atheist will do the same. The Pope cannot ignore that atheism is rising in the world. This is a gentle prodding to bring them to Christ, who art all good.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.