Are We Really Catholic Bashing?

reachingcatholics.org ^ | Unknown | Mike Gendron

[jodyel]

Are We Really Catholic Bashing? Mike Gendron

Throughout the last 13 years we have made the Roman Catholic Church our primary mission field. It has been our heart’s desire to see Roman Catholics embrace the Lord Jesus Christ as their all-sufficient Savior and enjoy the salvation He sovereignly secured for all who trust Him alone. Needless to say, we have received thousands of letters, e-mails and phone calls from disgruntled, irate, annoyed, threatening or confused Catholics who tell us we are Catholic bashers and do not know anything about their religion. Some are zealous for God, but without biblical knowledge. Others have an unbending loyalty to the Pope and his teachings. We recently received a letter which covers many issues that are usually brought forth when Catholics are confronted with the biblical Gospel. Following is the letter and my response.

Dear Mr. Gendron,

I hope you can open your heart enough to truly hear what I’m about to tell you. First, you were not a "hard-core" Catholic. You are like a lot of people who were raised Catholic, who really did not know or understand their faith. I was like you at one time. I was raised Catholic, but did not practice my faith for years. But thanks to the grace of God, the Holy Spirit, and my devout wife, I rediscovered my Catholic faith as an adult. I love my faith and its glorious tradition handed down from Peter and Paul and the Apostles.

Regarding your belief in the Bible alone, who do you believe compiled the Bible? Before the Protestant Reformation, Catholics wrote the only Bibles in existence. The King James Bible and all Protestant Bibles are based on the Catholic Bible, but many words were changed to justify Protestant beliefs. You see, Catholicism was the only game in town for over a thousand years until the Eastern Orthodox Church split with Rome and the Protestant Reformation further splintered Christians. The doctrines of Catholic faith have not significantly changed in 2000 years! Yet Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 11:2 those who "hold fast to traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter". In 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Paul says "Shun any brother who conducts himself not according to tradition they received from us." The Gospel of John 21:25 states that not everything Jesus said was recorded in scripture.

Does being born-again mean that it is open season on Catholics? Is Catholic bashing a requirement for being born-again? Why the constant attacks on Catholicism, an attack on those who receive Christ in the Eucharist on a weekly, or in my case, a daily basis? Do you really believe that if you’re Catholic you’re going to hell? When it was written that early Christians needed to be "born-again", the target audience was those who were not already baptized. Taken in that context, the need to be born-again does not apply to Catholics since Catholics have already been baptized, and are thus reborn.

Sincerely,

A Devout Catholic

Dear Devout Catholic,

I would like to address each one of your points. First, the Catholic Church was not even around to compile the Hebrews Scriptures. The Old Testament was closed 400 years before Christ’s life, death and resurrection. Furthermore, it was the apostles and the eyewitnesses to the events of Christ’s first coming who wrote the New Testament, not Catholics. The Roman Catholic Church did not exist in the first century. It can not be the one true church founded by Christ because it does not profess the faith of the apostles. Its teachings and traditions prove, beyond a doubt, that it has departed from the apostolic faith.

Jude warned the early church to contend for the faith against apostates. In verse 4 of his epistle, he wrote, "For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only sovereign and Lord." Jude identifies the apostates by certain characteristics that resemble the Roman Catholic Church. Catholics deny Jesus as the only sovereign and Lord by supplanting His authority with an authority of their own. They have turned the grace of God into a commodity that can be bought, bartered or merited through indulgences and sacraments. They have perverted the Gospel of grace into a gospel of faith plus works. They have denied the supremacy and sovereignty of Christ and given His divine attributes and titles to Mary and the Pope. They have denied the sufficiency of the word and work of Christ. These are just some of the characteristics that would convict the Catholic Church of being apostate not apostolic.

The Roman Catholic Church declares itself to be the church that Jesus started 2000 years ago. It further pronounces that the church never changes its dogmatic teachings. With this in mind we, once again, can examine the teachings of the Catholic Church today and prove they do not resemble the first century church. Nowhere in the New Testament do we see:

• Priests offering sacrifices for sins • Indulgences remitting punishment for sins • Prayers for souls in purgatory • Church leaders forbidden to marry • Infallible men • Salvation dispensed through sacraments • Rosaries, scapulars, holy water, crucifixes & statues

You said "the King James Bible and all Protestant Bibles are based on the Catholic Bible, but many words were changed to justify Protestant beliefs." You are incorrect. The King James Bible was translated from the original languages of Scripture (Hebrew and Greek) while the first Roman Catholic Bible, known as the Douay-Rheims Bible was translated from Latin in the 16th century. Needless to say, a translation from the original languages would be much more accurate than a translation from a translation. Furthermore, it is not the King James Bible that departed from the original canon but the Roman Catholic Bible. In 1546 the Council of Trent added the Apocryphal books to the canon in an attempt to justify the doctrine of Purgatory. Jerome rejected them when he was translating the Bible into Latin in 450 because they were never part of the Hebrew canon. The texts include Judith, the Wisdom of Solomon, Tobit, Sirach, Baruch, Maccabees I & II, Esdras I & II, additions to the Book of Esther, the Book of Daniel, and the Prayer of Manasseh.

Have you considered the references to tradition in the New Testament appear mostly as warnings against using them to nullify the word of God or to hold people captive (Mark 7:7-13; Col. 2:8-9). Only three times is tradition used in a positive sense. The few references you cited are exhortation for Christians to follow apostolic traditions. Please note the tense. Each reference is given in the past tense, i.e. the tradition which you were taught, (2 Thes. 2:15); which you have heard (2 Tim. 2:2); and, as I [Paul] delivered them to you (1 Cor. 11:2) Man’s tradition, which crept into the church after the apostles, is what we are to earnestly contend against (Jude 3). Followers of Jesus Christ are exhorted to earnestly contend for the faith which was delivered to the saints at the time the last apostle went to glory. "The faith" is made up of the Word of God and the traditions which "were taught" by the apostles. We must contend against other traditions because religious leaders and institutions can become corrupt (Mat. 23). The only assurance to genuine faith is from the objective, infallible Word of God (John 17:17).

You noted that the Gospel of John 21:25 states that not everything Jesus said was recorded in scripture. Do you know why John included what he did in his Gospel? He tells us. "These [things] have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:30-31). Have you believed what John wrote? Unfortunately many Roman Catholics would have been indoctrinated to trust their clergy rather than what is written in the divinely inspired Scriptures. Consider what John has written about the Lord Jesus Christ:

• He saves sinners from condemnation (John 3:18, 5:24). • He came to give life to those who are spiritually dead in sin (John 14:6). • He showed the world the only way to the Father because sinners are lost (John 14:6). • He is the personification of truth. To avoid deception we must trust Him (John 14:6). • He testifies to the truth. Those who seek the truth listen to Him (John 18:37).

John also answers your questions on being born-again. He wrote: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13). Please note that those who are born-again "believe in His name." Is it possible for a 7-day old infant to believe or have faith in anything? Please also note that those who are born-again are born of God not of any human initiative. You can not be born-again because you were born into a Christian family, or because of self-will or because of your parents’ decision to baptize you. It is God who calls and draws those He has chosen (Eph. 1:4; John 6:44; Rom. 8:30). The Bible teaches that anyone (Catholic or non-Catholic) who has not been born-again will not enter the kingdom of God, but instead suffer everlasting torment in the eternal lake of fire.

I do not know why Catholics so often refer to us as Catholic bashers. If we really wanted to bash Catholics we would ignore them and let them march proudly towards an eternity without Christ. It is our love for Catholics and for our Lord that motivates us to be faithful to the great commission. It is our compassion for Catholics that persuades us to proclaim that Jesus Christ is sufficient to save sinners completely and forever, a doctrine that most Catholics deny. And finally it is our desire to exalt our Lord by exposing any teaching or tradition that robs Him of the glory, honor and praise that He alone deserves. It is my prayer that you will come to Jesus with empty hands of faith, bringing nothing but your sins to the cross! Only then will you know the peace of God which surpasses all understanding.

In God’s Grace, Mike Gendron

[jodyel]

I am interested in talking to those that the Lord draws to me...not those who want to defend religion.

You are free to believe as you wish, mlizzy.

God bless,
jodyel

[Rashputin]

"There is no proof that Sirach was written before Jesus Christ showed up..."

Three copies of it are among the Dead Sea Scolls all of which have been dated as havng been wrtten prior to the birth of Christ.

I forgot to include Dr. Sivana so here's the TRUTH rather than the propaganda one more time

[jodyel]

The go to and stay in your religion, Legatus.

I will not stop you.

Thanks for posting,
jodyel

[Zionist Conspirator]

The people described in this post are not missionaries, by definition.

True missionaries seek out those who have never believed and teach them the Gospel.

They do not cozen people who already stand up in church every Sunday and pray the Lord's Prayer into joining a new sect.

If they believe that the very essence of the gospel is salvation through an antinomian loophole via the vicarious damnation of a divine scapegoat (and therefore that any and every religion that insists on human cooperation is the ultimate lie of "the devil") then they do.

[Rashputin]

The answer to the question posed in the title of this propaganda piece is

[Zionist Conspirator]

Afterthought: Is this why the Catholic Church refuses to engage in missionary activity among Protestants? Because Protestants are "saved" already? This sounds an awful lot like masonic "tolerance."

How ironic that my own experience with the church might have been very different if I had only been born to a cannibal tribe in New Guinea.

[jodyel]

Thanks for posting, Rashputin.

[Owl558]

“{If you are a Protestant determined to save all the Catholics you meet from “damnation,” you are obnoxious.”

I think most American Catholics have had the experience of being condemned to hell by some Protestant or another. I have had many prideful evengelicals lecture me on what I believe with 1000% certainty, that I worship Mary, that I pray to statues, that I’m not a REAL Christian, and on and on.

My trouble is not with such things, which are easily corrected. It is how some people will refuse or dismiss being corrected. I’m sure Catholics do the same all the time too, but in my experience, Protestants (boy, that’s a broad brush) seem particularly driven to dismiss/condemn Catholicism out of hand.

Just look at what the poster of this article is doing as an example. The person posted the article, Catholics respond, and the poster then dismisses them, by saying “Go your own way”.

So what, then, is the purpose of posting this article in the first place? It’s not to bring Protestants and Catholics closer together. It’s not for God’s glory. It’s not to have a discussion. No misunderstandings are being cleared up. So what then?

Forgive me for saying, but EGO seems to be a/the driving force behind such behavior. I think many well-meaning Protestants do this to reinforce things their preachers tell them about Catholice in Church, bible-school, or wherever. I have seen preachers, who should know better, doing this from the pulpit, no less. Conversely, in 50-years, I have never heard a Catholic priest do the same (Not surprised if it happens, but I have never seen it). Catholics generally don’t seem to get as exercised about Protestants ans Protestants get about Catholics.

Again, the sin here is not any well-meaning concern for or Catholic souls. I believe there is mostly LOVE behind the pride. The sin happens when we’re corrected and continue to bear false witness.

[Gamecock]

This question was posed on FR back in 2008: "Bashing" Roman Catholics? (Q&A from the Orthodox Presbyterian Church)

Certainly worth revisiting from a different perspective. Thanks for posting.

[workerbee]

Well said, Owl558. The phrase “concern troll” springs to mind.

[mlizzy]

It is how some people will refuse or dismiss being corrected...Just look at what the poster of this article is doing as an example. The person posted the article, Catholics respond, and the poster then dismisses them, by saying “Go your own way”.

Yes, exactly! No slam to you personally, jodyel, because I see several threads of goodness running through you, and you're a suffering sister in Christ, too, and I well know that road, but don't you think Owl558 has a point?

[Religion Moderator]

The "go your own way" has absolutely no bearing on who can post on an "open" Religion Forum thread.

I understand the "go your own way" means jodyel will not try to proselytize the person she posted it to.

[jodyel]

Ephesians 6:12
King James Version (KJV)

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I’ve no quarrel with you, Owl...thanks for posting.

[mlizzy]

I understand the "go your own way" means jodyel will not try to proselytize the person she posted it to.

That settles that!

Go Your Own Way

If I could
Maybe I'd give you my world
How can I
When you won't take it from me

You can go your own way
Go your own way
You can call it
Another lonely day
You can go your own way
Go your own way...

[Chainmail]

"See you in Heaven! I hope you don’t mind sharing it with us non-Catholic Christians. Because you’ll have to."

I expect to see every one of you there! Christianity is Christianity, as long as we all remember our love, not meaningless bickering.

I suspect that my Protestant brothers and sisters will have less need for Purgatory: those 1-hour sermons are punishment enough...

[Arthur McGowan]

Ooooh! “Religion”!!!

“Religion” means being determined (bound) to give God the worship, obedience, and service that He desires and is due.

It’s such a TERRIBLE thing!

[jodyel]

Thne go to it, arthur...I’ve no wish to stop you.

Thanks for posting again.

[Owl558]

“I’ve no quarrel with you, Owl...thanks for posting.”

Absolutely no quarrel intended and I appologize for questioning anybody’s Christian motivation (I asked forgiveness up front). It also seems I misunderstood your, “Go your own way,” wish (Thank you religion mod).

But I do believe that the discussion is worthy to have, peovided it is respectful and done through the Holy Spirit. It’s an old schizm that we’re still working through.

One thing that I do believe whole-heartedly is that Protestants are saved in the exact same way as Catholics. My personal thinking is that there may be more than one way to get to Christ, but that ALL ROADS pass through him (John 3:16).

[jodyel]

Hi Owl558,

I believe it is important as well, but this forum is not conducive to anything remotely respectful. Which is why I decided to let the Spirit draw who He will to Himself. His word is better than mine any day.

Plus, I’ve seen that attempting to explain how one receives Jesus and is born again and filled with the Spirit is not understood by most Catholics and my further attempts at explanation don’t help.

So from time to time I will post as I believe He leads and let Him open hearts and minds to His truth.

God bless,
jodyel

[WVKayaker]

waaaahhhhh! is what you are getting from them...

I sure read a lot of RC's whining and proclaiming their love for their traditions. The Gospel never falls on deaf ears, but is being heard by those that are sincerely seeking God. It is necessary to be open to the Holy Spirit, and "... in the fullness of time, God sent His Son.". As with all of those who heard Jesus Words firsthand, there are many that will reject God's plan of salvation and seek to replace it with the "traditions of men". Jody, the posting of this thread is hitting them in their hearts and they are hurting because it goes against their groups teachings.

It's really too simple for the Roman Catholics, when all of their lives they have been told their salvation depends on their church and obedience to their church, and yadayadayada to their church, ad infinitum. It is required by them to think that by going through their repetitious prayers and procedures that it will mean something to God and further their place in His Kingdom. But, Rome prefers to place the burden on the people, not allow them trust in the effectual plan God provides of unmerited Grace.

I will end this with a quote from Galatians, but it is just as well aimed at these Roman idolators:

Galatians 3: 3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? ...

Galatians 5: 5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. ...