Posted on 10/26/2013 4:56:26 AM PDT by Colofornian
I have recently been in conversation with some LDS bloggers on the topic of modern revelation. One of the bloggers expressed concern when I brought up the issue of demonic spirits having the ability to masquerade as deity or angels of light. He pointed out that if this were true how could anyone be sure that their personal revelations were of God?
He expressed precisely the concern that evangelicals have regarding the place of revelation in LDS theology. The contention of evangelicals has consistently been that modern revelation should not be exactly backwards from previous revelation. If it is, we believe it is coming from another source since the Bible warns us not to receive “another gospel” or “another Jesus” (Gal. 1:6-9, II Cor. 11:3) and we are told that Satan will try to counterfeit the true.
“Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works” (2 Corinthians 11:14-15).
Joseph Smith knew about revelations from another source. When a prophecy he made didn’t come true, he returned to his seer stone to seek another revelation and was told “Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of men: and some revelations are of the devil” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, chapter 4). I happen to agree with this revelation (whatever source it came from) because it lines up with what we are taught in the Bible which is my standard for discerning truth from error / God from Satan.
The Bible says, “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?” (Jer. 17:9)
For this reason, I don’t rely on feelings for a standard of discerning truth since my heart can deceive me. I trust Christ’s promise that He would preserve His words and I take His example that He never questioned the reliability of the OT scriptures when He was on earth, but He treated them as true, factual history and authoritative. Some LDS have told me that they use the Bible for their standard or that they don’t see a contradiction between the Bible and modern revelations so I will list a few examples of what I am talking about here and hopefully get some responses from LDS on how they reconcile what appear to me as diametrically opposed theology.
For example, the Bible says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast” (Eph. 2:8-9)
BoM: “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23)
The Bible: “And He said unto me, ‘My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.’ Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me” (2 Corinthians 12:9)
BoM: “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you…” (Moroni 10:32)
The Bible: “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8)
BoM: “And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins” (Alma 11:37)
The Bible: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us…that being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life” (Titus 3:5)
Apostle Spencer Kimball: “However good a person’s works, he could not be saved had Jesus not died for his and everyone else’s sins. And however powerful the saving grace of Christ, it brings exaltation to no man who does not comply with the works of the gospel” (Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 207).
What are the “works of the gospel” according to Jesus?
“Then they said unto Him, ‘What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?’ Jesus answered and said unto them, ‘This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent’” (John 6:29)
***Note: Before someone responds with James 2, I am not saying we can claim to have faith and then not manifest the works that should accompany true faith. James was written to address this specific problem as people were claiming the name of Christ, but in their works they denied Him.
Are you a Mormon? Well, I certainly don't mean to insult you.
I had an aunt and uncle who lived in a small Arizona town. They moved to it from their birthplace, Phoenix, because my uncle got a job with Customs on the line.
There were only three churches in town.
1. Catholic Church: they would NEVER, NEVAH have joined THAT church. Besides, it was full of Messicans. I have half Mexican but I know they didn't mean it personally.
2. Episcopalian Church: they were Episcopalians by upbringing but, according to them, the Church there was rife with battles, vendettas and other strife, so they eschewed their Episcopalian roots.
3. The third Church was the Mormon Church, so they joined it. I didn't think that there was anything bad about it. My uncle continued to go across the line, on occasion, and have a cerveza with his compadres. My aunt got into the Mormon Church with both barrels. Again, nothing wrong with that. I loved my aunt and whatever she chose for her faith was OK with me.
Whatever negative I got, I got recently from their son who now lives in Las Vegas. He didn't denigrade but pointed out facts. He wasn't a practicing Mormon anymore either. He had married a local girl who was Catholic, converted, divorced, he and now is neither Mormon nor Catholic.
I went to Vegas with an old friend from Texas and saw my cousin there...and my old brother-in-law who remarried after my sister passed away. She was only 38 years old...
No disrespect was intended!
Ah, so the “eternal laws” that allow you to verify these documents based on a subjective emotional test are spelled out in the documents you are verifying by such a standard?
That’s called circular reasoning, FRiend.
So grab your pitchfork and go fork some hay.
Placemarker
So tell me Storme, how would an evil spirit go about deceiving you? Is it possible he would make you ‘feel’ that the deception were indeed the truth?
Satan is the accuser and deceiver is he not? What does deceive mean to you?
1Ti 2:14 Eve was deceived by Satan the serpent. See also Da 8:25; 2Ti 3:13; Rev 12:9; Rev 20:3,10
He works counterfeit miracles 2Th 2:9-10 See also Ex 7:11-12,22; Dt 13:1-2; Mt 24:24 pp Mk 13:22; Rev 13:13-14; Rev 19:20
He appoints false prophets Mt 7:15 See also Dt 13:5; Jer 23:26; Jer 28:15; Jer 29:21; Eze 13:6-10; 2Pe 2:1-3,18-19
He misuses Scripture Mt 4:6 pp Lk 4:10
That is called Mormonism.
I'll await your non-clutter to improve my religious outlook.
Huh?
So you can call it CLUTTER and SPAM?
NOTHING in Mormon history shows that ANY Living Prophet® (or lesser mortals, either) EVER tried to shake the hand of any alledged messenger.
D&C 132 shows great COMMANDS from GOD; don't you agree?
I wonder why MORMONs refuse to obey them?
Jack’s long lost brother (sister?) with horns!!
No need for pitchforks; as I imagine your own petard will be sufficient.
Start wherever you want; but it ALL ends up HERE for Mormons...
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Temple Recommend Questions
1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer? 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days? 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church? 5 Do you live the law of chastity? 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church? 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel? 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen? 10 Are you a full-tithe payer? 11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom? 12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations? 13 If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple? 14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been? 15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances? |
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I try not to disrespect deceived folks, either.
Arrogant ones, however, are another matter.
I prayed about the BoM and God said RUN run away now.
No just deceived
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