Posted on 01/21/2014 7:03:33 PM PST by NKP_Vet
Billy Graham has been vilified for years by certain Catholic hating protestants because of his association with the Catholic Church and his friendship with the Popes. Mostly
evangelicals that say he has “sided with the devil” by not calling Catholics heathens.
The originator of this thread routinely posts that non Catholic Christians are an oxymoron
Some of these folks must not read many if these threads....to not see that
I grew up in a majority Protestant locale...
Never knew Catholics like these ....not al....here....this superiority complex
My only beef with Catholics is that Chauvinism by some and this lib pope
Christians should choose to worship as they wish
If they are wrong
They will answer for it
Justice Roy Moore would make a great US Supreme Court Justice.
“this lib pope”
Francis’ positions are the same as JP2 and B16. Where they also liberals? LOL.
"Mostly evangelicals"?
I've thought the same thing but have never found the words to say it as you have.
I don't know of anyone (save one person who is now banned) who has said "X are going to hell because they are X and not us." I don't. So if that's the definition of "bashing" then there is no bashing around here, against or by Catholics.
What is ALSO bashing, however, is to say, "[Denomination X] doesn't read the Bible. They are against Scripture. In fact, virtually everything they do and believe is contrary to the Word of God". That's bashing and "[Denomination X]" is usually the Catholic Church/Catholics.
That's bashing because everyone loves the Bible. Whether or not they read it correctly is immaterial to this point; it's still a personal insult to say to another, "You aren't reading the Bible as God intends". By implication, that's saying, "You're a hard hearted stubborn jerk".
Which is why I never say those words directly, and even when I do imply that, I don't claim an entire group of people are doing it, just a particular person (usually the one I'm talking to), and I'll then couch such an implication with, "this is how I see it", "this interpretation seems more reasonable" or some such.
If someone is wrong in their interpretation of Scripture, the loving thing to do IS to tell them. But such an endeavor shouldn't start off with the salvo, "You are ignoring God's Word" (or "twisting" it or anything like that. Not the OPENING salvo at least)
Debates about the Bible should never be approached with an air of superiority (it is the Word of God after all, something given in love, so should be shared in love). This applies to anyone reading this, Catholic or not.
I'm sorry others around here don't see that. I really am.
Much more constructive dialog could be achieved if everyone remembered two facts: one, only the Holy Spirit converts (not you, the person reading this now) and two, this form of communication can not and should not be relied upon as a substitute for real evangelization.
A supplement yes, but not a substitute. It seems to me sometimes some get all hot and bothered because they are trying to fulfill the great commission here, solely on the Internet. And that's not possible.
If everyone remembered those two facts, we wouldn't put so much stock into "proving the other guy wrong" and "getting the last word", which are the primary reasons there is so much hostility in the subject of religion.
Bull
All that egalitarian equitable capitalism
That’s just starters
Half my family is Catholic
Ratliffs
Dunnellys
All dismayed with this Pope
They might be dismayed with him but nothing changes under him. Catholic dogma is Catholic dogma. He does talk alot and it leaves him open for all types of criticism. Not media savvy like the last two popes. They were from a university/academic background, Francis comes from a different background. That something his critics, and the braindead liberals apparently don’t understand. Popes safeguard the truth. There will be no abortion, no changes in marriage no changes in women ordaination. Really no change in anything. All the popes that came before him; their teachings in matters of morals and faith were infallible. That means they were incapable of making error. So all this blabbing on about Pope Francis and what he might change but a liberal pipe dream. He couldn’t change anything even if he wanted to.
And his thoughts economics, whatever they might be, mean nothing. He said that in the paper he wrote. He said he was giving his personal thoughts, not the position of the Catholic Church.
Good point. I've said for years that Presidents should pick more SCOTUS judges from state supreme courts, rather than people who have been federal judges forever. Our country differs from most in that more Governors than Senators because President because we want people from outside Washington, I don't know why the same is not true of judges. I've had it up to here with these supposed "strict constructionist" and "originalist" federal judges like Roberts and Sandra Day O'Connor who go wobbly on us later on.
>> “this lib pope” <<
>> Francis’ positions are the same as JP2 and B16. Where they also liberals? LOL. <<
Another excellent point. The "tone" may be different, but he has not taken a single position that differs from the two previous Popes. I guess for a lot of freepers, the beliefs cited isn't as important as how theatrical the person is. Works the same with politicians. You can be a worthless RINO for years, but go on TV and start beating your chest about how much Obama sucks, and suddenly you're the new tea party savior. Francis has said for years that he is vehemently against gay marriage, but unless he tells all gays to their face that they're going to hell, he's a "liberal" who is "soft" on the issue.
And I've noticed not one of the Catholic critics here has addressed the point that there's two polar opposite reasons being used why the Catholic Church sucks:
EITHER the Catholics are way too lenient and theologically liberal, claiming all religions are equally true, its fine and dandy to be a Muslim or an atheist and that and everyone is going to heaven ("their liberal Pope says so, he thinks Muslims his friends and atheists are goin' to heavan") -- OR -- the Catholics are way too narrow-minded and arrogant extremists who think ONLY Catholics can experience salvation, telling everyone else they're bound for hell, and want to force everyone to become Catholic because they don't accept any other religion or Christian denomination as legit ("Catholic priests all told me I was going to hell 'cuz I wasn't Catholic").
They can't BOTH be true because those two extremes are 180 degrees apart. Yet both are cited on here as reasons why you can't trust Catholics and the Catholic Church.
Good points and you’re exactly right.
I've met plenty of envavelical protestants that claim they are the ONLY true "Christians", and that all practicing Catholic, Orthodox, and mainline protestant denominations don't "count" as Christian.
And again, either the Catholic Church is too extreme and thinks only Catholics are the true faith, or its too lenient and thinks all religions are equally true and being an atheist or Muslims is fine and dandy. They can't BOTH be true, yet Catholic bashers persist on arguing these opposite extreme are "What Catholics believe"
Rush...Sarah....wardaddy...all think Francis is a lib
I’m cool with it
VERY INTERESTING. I had never heard of "Duel Convert Theory" but it really opened my eyes once you mentioned it. No doubt it is a minority belief among protestants, but it does explain why some of them rant and rave that we have to tell all other religions that they're heathens that need to accept Jesus, but Jews can reject Jesus all they want and they're "God's chosen people til the end of time" and deserve 100% support and love from us no matter they do.
Of course, as a Catholic, I would argue the "Duel Convert Theory" is another example of a theological error. Jesus never said "Everyone must follow me, EXCEPT Jews", and the vast majority of his followers at the start were Jews anyway. Gentile converts came later. And all that "God's chosen people" stuff was from the Old Testament anyway. The New Testament mentions the temple veil being torn in two when Jesus died, not that God came down from the heavens and announced to the Jews "It's alright that you reject my son, you're still a-okay with me!"
>> And then we have Ann Coulter. Who seems to be on both sides of this particular fence. <<
Heh. Doesn't surprise me either. She's also on both sides of the "confederate heritage" debate, too. Probably the same situation -- her position on this depends on what audience she's trying to sell her books to on that given day. ;-)
The Catholic church teaches that they are the one true church, other churches have some of the truth, but we have it all. So, consequently, it’s harder to get it right in the other faiths, but not impossible. There, I think that’s as close to right as I can get it, being a mere layperson.
Dismayed, you say? I'll say!, and I'll add a bit worried and concerned, so I'm praying mightily for him.
This Pope is a Jesuit, so it's not like he's not educated, but he's not on the scale of Pope Benedict XVI, whom I hope and pray will live for 120 healthy, happy years.
I think that's a pretty accurate summery of how the Catholic Church sees itself in relation to other Christian denominations and religions.
We're approaching the one year anniversary of Benedict resigning and various Catholic freepers bashing me because I disagreed with their theory that Benedict was resigning because he was *SECRETLY* gravely ill and would "die within a few weeks".
I doubt any of them will now be admitting they were wrong. Oh well, I can't blame the flame war I had there on the protestants. ;-)
What can you expect from National (catholic) Review!
They’ll never see the harm done by such a massive false ‘church’ to the spiritual condition of the entire world.
Thanks.
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