Posted on 01/22/2014 9:30:46 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
I doubt it. Even though the Catholic Church in America has made great strides, cooperating with law enforcement authorities, and the number of complaints is way down, SNAP is not happy. It wants to destroy the Catholic Church and now it appears, the Baptists.
SNAP has made many, many valid complaints, but I think they want to destroy the church.
If someone is in such a state of open rebellion to God, then Paul and Peter tell us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith.
I'm not sure what that means as a response to the question: "...if we do not confess - He would not forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness?"
What is the SDA Church? Just curious.
Thanks for your reply.
I think we’re in agreement here. I’m interested to hear the basis and foundations for those who disagree.
Not hard to find. I am one.
I don’t believe in a one of them and I am Catholic.
SNAP’s going after the Baptists?
[Michael Bay 360-degree dolly shot]
[Stuff] just got real.
I'm confident that I'd be much more lenient than Yeshua will:
Matthew 7:
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock
>> “There’s a difference between confessing and repenting and doing works to pay off the debt we owe for our sin, as in penance.” <<
.
I whole heartedly agree!
Any action we take to earn ‘goodness’ in the eye of God, like giving a pittance to a homeless shelter, or handing a buck to an obviously starving woman on the street, is an attempt at salvation by works.
That is grossly different than following Yehova’s Torah, which he has written on the heart of every real believer.
I guess that’s what I took from the topic. SNAP isn’t just wanting to clean up the Catholic Church because now it is the Baptist.
I support them trying to stop sexual abuse cover-ups but it is starting to appear that they are more agenda driven than actually wanting to bring about change to try and stop abuses.
When the priests, ministers and such are found out— it doesn’t matter if it was 20-30-40 years ago— something can be done to the offender.
A school teacher, policeman or other people of authority, that are not in the church, well, they can’t be touched after 20 years( other than their reputation).
I am just questioning the sincerity of SNAP, since they are branching out from the Catholic Church. Are they going to protest Mosques? No?
It is starting to smell like SNAP is only after Christian churches. Since they are branching and if they are really about helping, it seems they would protest schools, too.
I think all sex offenders and molesters deserve a foot up their arse and more.
SDA Seventh day adventist.
I guess I am looking at this from a position of humility vs. arrogance. Meaning if we do not confess our transgressions against God, then we are lacking humility. As John says he who says he does not sin is a liar. In our language that could mean denial.
I am of the mind to examine in prayer every morning, throughout the day and at night how I have served my King. Then to ensure I examine His Word for guidance and growth. For me this is analogous to thoroughly washing oneself in pure water (His Word and example) each day. As we say in the military this keeps the lines of communication open at both ends.
editor-surveyor points out enduring to the end. He is correct. What I want to point out “we” are not the authors of salvation...God is the Author.
Second point is we are not alone in our outlook of perseverance. Paul tells us God is Sovereign in the “process” of Justification, Sanctification and ultimately Glorification.
So the below reference in Romans 8 tells us we are saved, we are being saved and will ultimately shed the corrupt for the incorruptible at the Resurrection; which is the final “stage” of our promised salvation.
Romans 8:26-39 NASB
In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Just as it is written, “F or Y our sake we are being put to death all day long ; W e were considered as sheep to be slaughtered .” But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
>>> “There’s a difference between confessing and repenting and doing works to pay off the debt we owe for our sin, as in penance.”
Can we “pay of the debt we owe for our sin” without confessing and repenting?
I.e., if we do not confess and repent.. ?
I appreciate that. I'm more exploring the theology, more precisely the soteriology, here. It's likely not something you are that interested in discussing. I apologize if this is off the topic you wish, and thank you for your reply.
Matthew 24:
[8] All these are the beginning of sorrows.
[9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
[10] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
An interesting paradox, is it not? The difference between Yeshua's teaching, and Paul's?
Sure fire away. Soteriology is a great topic on this forum.
It is not a paradox IMO at all. What came between the Words of Yeshua and His apostles in space and time?
Yeshua was of course blessed with his knowledge of the heart and soul of every individual he encountered. Paul was not. But Romans 7 reveals Paul’s often hidden struggle.
No, no matter what we do, we cannot pay even for one sin we committed much less all of them. You are really talking about two different things. We are saved when we believe in and receive Jesus Christ as our savior. God's grace is given to us through faith and NOT by any of our works or merit. He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. (Titus 3:5) Repentance necessary for salvation is when we change our minds from following after dead works and come to Christ in faith.
Once we have been born again into God's family and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, if we (when we) commit sin, we may lose fellowship with our Heavenly Father - and that is because of our OWN shame and sense of not deserving God's love because we know in our hearts we have hurt Him - but we do not lose our salvation. We cannot because we are not saved by our own merit in the first place nor are we kept saved by our deserving it either. When we come to our senses and repent, confessing our sins to God in true humility and Godly sorrow, He is faithful and just to forgive us and He cleans us of all unrighteousness. Like Psalm 32:5 says, "Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD." And you forgave the guilt of my sin." That is a different matter than paying the debt of sin - which God says can ONLY be done by the shedding of blood.
If a believer dies before he/she has been brought to repentance over a sin (and there were some cases when God took people home before they could cause further damage to the cause of Christ), that believer would not have lost her/his salvation. God is constantly working in us to conform us into the image of Christ. He is merciful, he knows our frames and remembers we are but dust. As we mature and grow in our walk with the Lord, sin gradually loses its pull on us and we find that what we used to do and delight in doing we now look back in shame and remorse. Matthew Henry's Commentary says this about I John 1:9:
That is the matchless grace of our Creator. Praise His holy name!
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