Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Priest conceived in rape: I forgave my father and heard his confession
Life Site News ^ | February 12, 2014 | SOFIA VAZQUEZ-MELLADO

Posted on 02/13/2014 6:28:59 AM PST by NYer

QUITO, Ecuador, February 12, 2014 (LifeSiteNews.com) – A priest in Ecuador has shared how he was conceived in rape when his mother was 13, and then later not only forgave his father but heard his confession.

“I could be in a trash can, but I was given life,” Father Luis Alfredo Leon Armijos, 41, told ACI Prensa in an interview last year.

The priest shared how his mother, Maria Eugenia Armijos, had to work cleaning a house in Loja, Ecuador, to help her parents support her seven siblings. She was only 13 when “the owner of the house, taking advantage of being alone, abused her and left her pregnant.”

Maria Eugenia’s family rejected her. “They didn’t want the baby to be born so they hit her in the belly and gave her drinks that would make her abort,” the priest said.

The girl decided to run away to the city of Cuenca, where she gave birth to Luis Alfredo, who was born with respiratory problems due to his mother’s young age.

After some time, Maria Eugenia made it back to Loja with the baby. “She ended up under the care of her rapist - my father - who acknowledged I was his and said he would take care of me,” said Leon, “but that doesn’t mean that things between them were healthy.”

“They had three more children and my relationship with him was distant,” explained the priest.

When Fr. Leon was 16, he was invited to the Charismatic Renewal. “I had my first encounter with Christ,” he said.

At 18 he decided to enter the Seminary in Loja, and was ordained at 23 with the bishop’s special permission due to his young age.

His parents split up two years later and his mother finally revealed to him how he was conceived.

Leon said how he realized that “God was allowing me to be a priest not to judge but to forgive. I had judged my father a lot for everything.”

Years later he received a call from his father who had to go through a surgery. “He was scared and told me: I want you to hear my confession,” said Leon.

“I told him: ‘Father, you deserve heaven, an eternal life,’” explained the priest. “In that moment my father was filled with tears.”

After 30 years, Leon’s father received Communion.

“You can come to know your own story and hate your life,” he continued. “Judge God like I had done. But I discovered that God’s love had been there looking over my life.”

“Everything I have is a gratuity. Life itself is an exquisite gift from God,” he concluded.

Fr. Leon is currently a parish priest for the San José Parish in Loja, Ecuador.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 02/13/2014 6:29:00 AM PST by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 02/13/2014 6:29:21 AM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Darn blurry screen!


3 posted on 02/13/2014 6:35:07 AM PST by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Sounds like the old Strom Thurmond tragedy not reveal until after the old man’s passing.


4 posted on 02/13/2014 6:42:36 AM PST by Theodore R. (TX Republicans to endorse Cornball and George P! Stay tuned March 4)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
"Years later he received a call from his father who had to go through a surgery. “He was scared and told me: I want you to hear my confession,” said Leon."

I don't care much for these deathbed conversions.

It reminds me of Hugo Chavez who was smooching every crucifix within arms reach once he found out he was dying

If you live a bad life you don't get to wipe the slate clean at the end by SAYING you are sorry.

5 posted on 02/13/2014 6:46:49 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr. K; NYer
What happens at the last-minute conversion of a lifelong sinner, his relationship with Christ is restored. If he has not paid a price for his crimes in this lifetime, though, he may get a good long time in Purgatory --- as Christ said, (Matthew 5:26) - "...truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny."

God is forgiving, merciful, and just. Exactingly just. "The last penny."

I have to assume that the Good Thief on the cross next to Jesus could enter Paradise "this day" because he'd paid the price in this life. After all, he was crucified.

6 posted on 02/13/2014 6:57:59 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("St Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. . . against the wickedness and snares of the devil.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Mr. K
I don't care much for these deathbed conversions.

This one sounds like it's real enough and, as told, seems to fit well with what Jesus taught.

His confession to his son, conceived by his raping his mom, would indicate a kind of change of heart well beyond Chavez's kissing some crosses.

None of us are sin free, but we are forgiven as we forgive. Both men/souls win in this story, as do those who take it to heart.

7 posted on 02/13/2014 6:59:40 AM PST by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: NYer

**After 30 years, Leon’s father received Communion.

“You can come to know your own story and hate your life,” he continued. “Judge God like I had done. But I discovered that God’s love had been there looking over my life.”

“Everything I have is a gratuity. Life itself is an exquisite gift from God,” he concluded.**

Wow!


8 posted on 02/13/2014 7:07:55 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr. K

“If you live a bad life you don’t get to wipe the slate clean at the end by SAYING you are sorry.”

That is correct. You apparently are unaware that grace can happen in an instant. You nor I are the arbiters of that. God is


9 posted on 02/13/2014 7:08:33 AM PST by Nifster
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Nifster

+1 for correcting egregious assumptions.


10 posted on 02/13/2014 7:12:46 AM PST by Usagi_yo (Standardization is an Evolutionary dead end.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Mr. K
If you live a bad life you don't get to wipe the slate clean at the end by SAYING you are sorry.
I'm with you and when I get push back I just use Ted Kennedy as an example.
11 posted on 02/13/2014 7:14:18 AM PST by oh8eleven (claimer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Nifster

Points from me, too. You are exactly right.


12 posted on 02/13/2014 7:54:18 AM PST by Shimmer1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: NYer

A couple comments:

There are many Jews who refuse to accept Jesus because how could a man like Adolf Hitler go to Heaven after killing so many people through genocide and aggressive war?

The easy answer is that this man is not at all like Adolf Hitler. He did not brutally rape and then torture and kill the priest’s mother, and afterword he apparently helped the mother raise the child that resulted from the rape.

But, what if this man did brutally rape and then torture and kill the mother, and/or then abandon and then kill the child? Or, what if Adolf Hitler asked for a priest and then did not commit suicide but allowed himself to be taken prisoner and stand trial for war crimes?

I’d bet that there are some people who would want God to forgive whatever the wantonness of the crime. And, here’s what I’ll say about that: would you have God not forgive anybody who obeyed the Ten Commandments all their lives because they failed to confess on the name of Jesus?

Everybody, it seems, has their unforgivable sin.


13 posted on 02/13/2014 8:31:58 AM PST by Redmen4ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr. K
It reminds me of Hugo Chavez who was smooching every crucifix within arms reach once he found out he was dying.

While he was kissing Crucifixes he could have been trying to undo what he did to his country. BUT he didn't!

14 posted on 02/13/2014 8:33:15 AM PST by painter ( Isaiah: “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Nifster; Mr. K
Are you limiting God's ability to forgive sins?

Here are the words of absolution that the priest says.....notice that God forgives the sins!

Catechism of the Catholic Church

 

1449 The formula of absolution used in the Latin Church expresses the essential elements of this sacrament: the Father of mercies is the source of all forgiveness. He effects the reconciliation of sinners through the Passover of his Son and the gift of his Spirit, through the prayer and ministry of the Church:

 

God, the Father of mercies,
through the death and the resurrection of his Son
has reconciled the world to himself
and sent the Holy Spirit among us
for the forgiveness of sins;
through the ministry of the Church
may God give you pardon and peace,
and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.


15 posted on 02/13/2014 9:08:10 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Mr. K
If you live a bad life you don't get to wipe the slate clean at the end by SAYING you are sorry.

I agree with you but God knows the heart. He alone knows if the repentance comes from faith because God calls and gives faith. That's the purpose of the Law, to show a sinner his sins, then God will forgive and justify that sinner. Christian need to recall the parable of the vineyard owner who needed workers.

16 posted on 02/13/2014 9:13:42 AM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Redmen4ever
And, here’s what I’ll say about that: would you have God not forgive anybody who obeyed the Ten Commandments all their lives because they failed to confess on the name of Jesus?

Laying aside the inability to keep the Law, there is no salvation through the Law as scripture attests. Salvation is by grace through faith in the redeeming work of Christ, as scripture says.

17 posted on 02/13/2014 9:18:02 AM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Wow! What a story. His life reads like a bad novel until you get to the divine redemption. Amazing man. God is good.


18 posted on 02/13/2014 9:18:25 AM PST by Bigg Red (O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth! Ps 8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr. K
It reminds me of Hugo Chavez who was smooching every crucifix within arms reach once he found out he was dying.

Well, he can smooch all the idols he wants, ain't gonna help him. BUT, if ole Hugo really, actually, asked Jesus Christ to forgive him of all his sins, and truly had a "come to Jesus moment" and it was for real, then ole Hugo will be walking the streets of gold in Heaven. Because, our LORD Jesus who will know if it was real, will have forgiven him, and Hugo will be there. It was up to Hugo. God forgives when you ask Him to forgive you of your sins and you truly believe on Him, believe the Gospel of Grace, death, burial and RESURRECTION!!! He rose, thus He lives. He forgives. Even those as bad a Hugo. Because we are all sinners and come short of the glory of God.

19 posted on 02/13/2014 9:23:11 AM PST by RetiredArmy (God's judgment on America is here for us to see. If America does not wake up, it is going to suffer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Redmen4ever
There are many Jews who refuse to accept Jesus because how could a man like Adolf Hitler go to Heaven after killing so many people through genocide and aggressive war?

Adolph Hitler is in heaven? Says who?

20 posted on 02/13/2014 9:24:33 AM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: xone

Just to clear this up, if Adolf Hitler on his death bed, asked for forgiveness, you would have no problem with him going to heaven? But, a firefighter who isn’t a Christian, who dies trying to save people in a burning building, you think that person should be prepared to spend all of eternity in flames?


21 posted on 02/13/2014 9:25:23 AM PST by Redmen4ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I refer to what appears to be a possibility as many Jews perceive Christianity. It appears to be possible, under the rules of Christianity, that Adolph Hitler, in the moment between firing a bullet into his head and becoming dead, could have asked God for to forgive him and have been saved.

What do you say. Do you say if Adolph Hitler has asked for forgiveness in his dying gasp, that it is possible for him to be in heaven? And, as for the Jews that Hitler killed, many of whom did not confess on the name of Jesus, do you think it is possible that they are in hell?


22 posted on 02/13/2014 9:31:34 AM PST by Redmen4ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Wonderful post!!!!

People forget that God is not only just but that His mercy is very great. We often judge by human standards but God knows the heart and THAT is what He is interested in. He is just in that we will be made holy and merciful to give us the utmost opportunity. Unfortunately, some WILL end in hell, but in His mercy, He also offers us other opportunities. This is why the teachings on Purgatory (substantiated by both Scripture and the early Fathers of the Church) have always made so much sense to me.

Matthew 20:1-16

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

Ecclesiastes 12:14

“For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.”

Matthew 5:25-26

“Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.”


23 posted on 02/13/2014 9:32:52 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Theodore R.

Strom Thurmond didn’t rape anybody. He had him a little muttalo girlfriend that got pregnant and he always provided for the girl, even paid for her college. Strom Thurmond was one of the greatest conservatives in the history of this country.


24 posted on 02/13/2014 9:43:52 AM PST by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christian raisin', and 8th grade education, aint no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Redmen4ever
Heaven isn't mine or ours to give, God has set the bar. Whether I had a problem with it is irrelevant, as it is a decision that God has made. From my human nature, you bet I'd be angry especially if I had spent my whole life faithfully following the Savior (which I haven't)keeping His Law (which I haven't)and yet at the end I end up with the same thing Hitler got.

Yet when God signed me up for His program He communicated what the end result would be. By His grace through faith I eagerly accepted the denarius that was offered. Because others who didn't toil as long as I get the same denarius, shouldn't bother me, because I got what was promised to me. But sin still holds some sway in a believer's life and the temptation to be bothered by the gifts others get is strong.

Matt 20:1-16 is the reference, but the last 7 verses apply here:

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’ 13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’ 16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

Works are excluded from salvation: Romans 9:15

25 posted on 02/13/2014 9:52:19 AM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: NKP_Vet

Strom Thurmond would drop his daughter off at college and pick her up when school was over. He always provided for his child, he just didn’t publically acknowledge her because it would have ruined his life back then.


26 posted on 02/13/2014 9:52:56 AM PST by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christian raisin', and 8th grade education, aint no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: xone

You have spoken well. The generosity of the Master with those hired late in the day is directly on point. But, God is All Just, so he isn’t arbitrary in his generosity. Consider the teaching concerning the Prodigal Son. The Faithful Son said, what gives? I’ve been obedient all my days. And when did you have a party to celebrate that? What did the father say? Did he say, Hey, this is my stuff and I can do what I will with it! Are you jealous because I am generous? No. In this instance he says all I have is yours.

One way to reconcile these two seemingly divergent teachings is that we who have been faithful will see and accept the Justice and Mercy in God’s Salvation. So, if Hitler is in Heaven (which I really doubt), we will understand and praise God for it. I also think it is instructive that the Bible says God hardened Pharaoh’s heart. I think this means that those who are truly evil God has judged them and will not allow them to repent. I say this because all the sinners I know, I among them, aren’t intending evil, but have human weaknesses in terms of ignorance and lack of will power. None of the sinners I have known have or had hardened hearts.

At least I can say this, everybody I have gotten to know, I would be very happy to see in Heaven and I pray for them, including those who have gone before me (because what is time to God). The man in the article who, after thirty years, sought to be forgiven by his son, who had become a priest, God did not harden his heart, but kept him alive so that he and his son could be reconciled with each other and also be reconciled with their Heavenly Father.


27 posted on 02/13/2014 10:42:21 AM PST by Redmen4ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Redmen4ever
I pray for them, including those who have gone before me

I would part company with you here in that is is good and right that we thank God for the friends we have/had on earth. But prayer can't change the future or lot of one departed. The writer of Hebrews tells us,

27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

prayer for the dead avails nothing, if he be saved, he has no need of prayer; if he be damned prayer has no effect. But it is a good reminder to pray for those we love in this world that God may bring them to the knowledge of the truth and for those that have it, that God strengthen their faith that they may persevere to the end.

28 posted on 02/13/2014 12:38:35 PM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: xone

I don’t pray for the dead. To God, all time is now. So, the moment before death of any person who lived, is living or will live is now to God; as is every moment of their life. But, hey, that’s just me talking.


29 posted on 02/13/2014 1:07:15 PM PST by Redmen4ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Redmen4ever
To God, all time is now.

This type of discussion of time makes my head hurt at all the implications, but humans do have a limit, as the Psalmists' says:

Psalm 90:12

12 So teach us to number our days that we may get a heart of wisdom.

30 posted on 02/13/2014 1:17:53 PM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: xone

To lose yourself is to find yourself. But, I think the other way is also true. People must find themselves. To have a sense of self. For this, it is useful to have a sense of time and place. Also, to have a sense of purpose. But, to join with the Almighty is to lose all limitations of time and place and to join in the pure self-fulfilling being-ness of God.

Let me tell a story. Buddha was taught to count by ones up to ten, and then by tens up to a hundred, then by hundreds up to a thousand, then by thousands up to ten-thousands, then by ten-thousands up to lakh (one hundred thousand), which he said is silent reverence. At this point, his teacher said there 26 sets of numbers higher than lakh, which for Brahma was but one second of time.

Then Buddha was taught to count by increasingly small numbers, by the fingers of his hand, then by the digits of his fingers, then by divisions of his digits, until he came to a length about that of an atom. It was at this point that Buddha understood that we are not God but neither are we nothing. We have our place. And, for Buddha, this was the beginning of enlightenment.


31 posted on 02/13/2014 2:15:31 PM PST by Redmen4ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Redmen4ever

And yet Buddha for all his enlightenment never saw his Savior.


32 posted on 02/13/2014 2:25:34 PM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Redmen4ever
I refer to what appears to be a possibility as many Jews perceive Christianity. It appears to be possible, under the rules of Christianity, that Adolph Hitler, in the moment between firing a bullet into his head and becoming dead, could have asked God for to forgive him and have been saved.

Well, let's turn the situation around. If a Jew massacred christians and repented before death, would he be saved? Consider, as well, that in the United States, about 60 million children have been murdered in their mothers’ wombs since 1973, a tower of evil darker than Mordor. The Holocaust comes from the same bitter root as the abortion movement. They both came that we might have death, and have it abundantly. In the Holocaust 6 million Jews were killed. Jews often object when anyone compares the number killed in the Holocaust with any other number of persons killed because Hitler was trying to kill Europe’s entire Jewish population, but state approval of a systematic killing of large numbers of Jews is comparable no matter who is doing the killing. If Jews are 2 percent of the population, we may assume that Jews participated in 2 percent of the 60 million U.S. abortions since 1973. Liberal Jewish women therefore have killed more than 1 million Jewish children, a significant part of the Jewish population.

During the Holocaust Jewish men and women cried out from their hearts, “Almighty God, hear the cry of the poor!” God heard their cry and gave them back the land of Israel. Israel’s war-cry was, “Never again.” But even in Israel many Jewish mothers also kill the children in their own wombs. God told us, “He who closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself cry out and not be heard” Proverbs 21:13. Rabbi Yeshua confirmed it. “For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get” Mt 7:2. For those who cheerfully obey the Torah or Church law, our fidelity is eternity in heaven. For those who follow man’s law Roe v. Wade it can be eternity in hell.

What do you say. Do you say if Adolph Hitler has asked for forgiveness in his dying gasp, that it is possible for him to be in heaven?

What happens at death? Christians believe that we are judged .. actually, we believe that we judge ourselves. We also believe that only those who are spotless may enter into heaven. Do you think Adolph Hitler fits that description?

And, as for the Jews that Hitler killed, many of whom did not confess on the name of Jesus, do you think it is possible that they are in hell?

You are citing a belief of Fundamentalist christians, not Catholics. Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.

The truth is that in one sense we are all redeemed by Christ’s death on the cross—Christians, Jews, Muslims, even animists in the darkest forests (1 Tim. 2:6, 4:10, 1 John 2:2)—but our individual appropriation of what Christ provided is contingent on our response.

I would recommend you pick up a copy of this book, written by a Jew, Roy Schoeman.

Roy Schoeman grew up studying Judaism under the most prominent Rabbis in American Judaism. After receiving a B.S. from M.I.T. and an M.B.A. from Harvard Business School, he taught at Harvard. You may find the following interview with the author, informative.

Jewish Voice Extended Interview with Roy Schoeman

33 posted on 02/13/2014 2:28:08 PM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Where to start with this mess:

Rabbi Yeshua

Son of God there, not one of His titles in Isaiah.

For those who cheerfully obey the Torah or Church law, our fidelity is eternity in heaven.

In contrast to 'all have sinned' (I just heard that that statement is hyperbole). Church law now saves?

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith,[e] as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”[f]

Romans 3

21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

What happens at death? Christians believe that we are judged .. actually, we believe that we judge ourselves.

Really, so instead of 'from thence He came to judge the living and the dead' becomes 'whence I die I judge myself'?Christians indeed!

We also believe that only those who are spotless may enter into heaven. Do you think Adolph Hitler fits that description?

Not in his historic state, but had he been given the grace and the faith to repent, he would indeed would be in heaven.

Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death.

Catholics may teach that, the trick is HOW.

And, as for the Jews that Hitler killed, many of whom did not confess on the name of Jesus, do you think it is possible that they are in hell? You are citing a belief of Fundamentalist christians,

Because salvation is by grace through faith in the redeeming work of Jesus. No Jesus, no salvation, that's scriptural.

The truth is that in one sense we are all redeemed by Christ’s death on the cross—Christians, Jews, Muslims, even animists in the darkest forests (1 Tim. 2:6, 4:10, 1 John 2:2)—but our individual appropriation of what Christ provided is contingent on our response.

Not in one sense. All humanity was redeemed by Christ on the cross. Our appropriation of that gift is by grace we are called, by grace we are given faith, by grace we repent and are reconciled to God. Before we are justified we remain enemies of God. Only then can we receive spiritual things.

34 posted on 02/13/2014 3:33:03 PM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: xone

Are you Catholic or Evangelical?


35 posted on 02/13/2014 3:38:46 PM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I am neither in the sense that Evangelical is used today.


36 posted on 02/13/2014 3:41:00 PM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: NYer

On what you actually said, no problem. I’d state more positively that the Jews are our older brothers in the faith. They are the tree into which we have been grafted. So, certainly, Jews who keep the commandments and who ask for God’s forgiveness trusting in his mercy, they are saved.

As for others, religious or otherwise, I’m inclined to the same opinion. I, being merely human, would like to see some behavior evidencing repentance; but, God can see into one’s heart and doesn’t need “evidence”. I sometimes wonder about atheists, though. Maybe I’m prejudiced, but why would an atheist run into a burning building to save another person; or, not steal or lie when they could get away with it? And, besides, how do you handle it if the guy in the foxhole next to you doesn’t make it and he’s not a believer?

Finally, the question that, instead of you answering, you asked me, I’m pretty certain Adolf Hitler is in hell. In any case, if I were a Catholic priest, and Hitler on his death bed asked me for absolution, I’d say no. Maybe that’s why I’m not a Catholic priest.


37 posted on 02/13/2014 3:49:24 PM PST by Redmen4ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Redmen4ever; All
Adolf Hitler on his death bed, asked for forgiveness,

There is one problem with that. Hitler killed himself by blowing his brains out.I don't think that would leave him much time to ask for forgiveness,but I still won't condemn him to hell. That's God's decision not mine.

38 posted on 02/14/2014 8:25:49 AM PST by painter ( Isaiah: “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson