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Vaticanís secret, and deadly, project to preserve its saints
New York Post ^ | 03/22/2014 | Theresa Potenza

Posted on 03/23/2014 7:49:27 PM PDT by Alex Murphy

The Catholic belief of “incorruptibility” holds that if a body does not decay after death, the person is holy. It takes two miracles to become a saint; the Church once allowed a perfect corpse to count as one.

Incorruptibility is no longer a miracle, however, perhaps because so many tried to help God along. Oil and herbs were inserted into the muscle cavities of some older popes, for instance.

When Pope Pius XII died in 1958, the Vatican used a wrapping technique similar to what was believed to have been applied to Jesus. It failed miserably. Only days after his death, his nose fell off, and a Swiss Guard fainted due to the stench while he was guarding the body.

[SNIP]

In 2000, Pope John Paul II had [Pope John XXIII] exhumed to be declared “blessed,” part of the progression to sainthood. The airtight coffin had left him virtually undisturbed, and the embalming team wanted to keep it that way.

After the pope’s internal organs were removed and analyzed, the body was placed in a stainless-steel tub for several weeks in a solution of formalin and alcohol, then neutralized for several weeks.

His body then undertook a series of baths in assorted solutions for months at a time, including various mixtures of ethanol, methanol, phenol, camphor, nitrobenzene, turpentine and benzoic acid.

Finally the body was bandaged in linen cloths saturated with a solution of mercury bichloride and ethanol. Then a second team ensconced him with wax on his face and hands. The entire process took about a year.

The Church decided not to rebury Pope John XXIII, instead putting him on display for pilgrims. More than 25,000 people visit St. Peter’s Basilica every day, and many faithful still believe the incorrupt state of his body is a miracle.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Ministry/Outreach; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; incorruptibility; moacb; relics
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The Catholic belief of “incorruptibility” holds that if a body does not decay after death, the person is holy. It takes two miracles to become a saint; the Church once allowed a perfect corpse to count as one. Incorruptibility is no longer a miracle, however, perhaps because so many tried to help God along. Oil and herbs were inserted into the muscle cavities of some older popes, for instance....

.... The Church decided not to rebury Pope John XXIII, instead putting him on display for pilgrims. More than 25,000 people visit St. Peter’s Basilica every day, and many faithful still believe the incorrupt state of his body is a miracle.

1 posted on 03/23/2014 7:49:27 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Gamecock
Pope Formosa

"It's a miracle!"

2 posted on 03/23/2014 7:52:47 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Alex Murphy

I don’t understand...
I assume The 12 Apostles have long turned to dust.
I am not aware of evidence to the contrary.
Certainly, if any were Saints, these were

This seems like a varient of Necromancy
King Saul got in trouble for this...


3 posted on 03/23/2014 8:01:59 PM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: Alex Murphy

Sorry...but this is just weird. All of it.


4 posted on 03/23/2014 8:02:32 PM PDT by berdie
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To: Alex Murphy

i must say, using embalming fluid and vacuum-packing the corpse....seems a bit ....unfair...(like, cheating)... if you’re trying to proclaim a miracle from its preservation


5 posted on 03/23/2014 8:04:01 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: Alex Murphy
here's one more :

Miracle, indeed.

6 posted on 03/23/2014 8:04:20 PM PDT by DTA
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To: HangnJudge

The Bible is clear on this. “Saints” are simply believers in Christ, called by Him, chosen by Him and bought with His Blood, not works.


7 posted on 03/23/2014 8:04:52 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: faithhopecharity

I’d hate to get into a poker game with these miracle-seeking guys..


8 posted on 03/23/2014 8:05:13 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: Alex Murphy

This is about as elaborate as mummification in the days of ancient Egypt.


9 posted on 03/23/2014 8:07:49 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: HangnJudge
"I don’t understand... I assume The 12 Apostles have long turned to dust. I am not aware of evidence to the contrary. Certainly, if any were Saints, these were"

The Church does not claim that ALL those who lived saintly lives will be incorruptible. It only happens to a few, apparently at God's discretion.

"This seems like a varient of Necromancy King Saul got in trouble for this..."

Necromancy is when someone tries to contact the dead to gain information from them. That is what Saul did. A saint's body found to be be incorruptible is nothing like necromancy.

10 posted on 03/23/2014 8:08:33 PM PDT by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: Alex Murphy

A long time ago, when I was in high school (Spain) we went on field trip to a monastery. We were told ahead of the trip that we would see the body of the founder of the monastery who had died sometime in the Middle Ages, and that the body was “miraculously preserved”. I don’t remember many details, other than I was very excited at the idea of seeing a body preserved for over 1000 years... It was a big disappointment, it looked just like the Egyptian mummies when they remove the bandages: small, dry, black. It was hard to recognize it as a real body, let alone one miraculously preserved...


12 posted on 03/23/2014 8:14:50 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: fidelis
The Church does not claim that ALL those who lived saintly lives will be incorruptible. It only happens to a few, apparently at God's discretion.

Really? Other than the prophecies of Jesus' body not seeing corruption and him not being left in death, where is that written in the Bible? I would like to know.

13 posted on 03/23/2014 8:15:03 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: fidelis
That is what Saul did.
A saint's body found to be be incorruptible
is nothing like necromancy.

Ok, I see
But this body seems to be quite corruptible
except through a preservative process
an embalmer would love (I've known many)

And maintaining a illusion of Incorruptibility for the Laity
Is seriously bizarre

14 posted on 03/23/2014 8:16:06 PM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: Alex Murphy

So, Alex Murphy, what do you believe?


15 posted on 03/23/2014 8:17:28 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: HangnJudge
"Ok, I see But this body seems to be quite corruptible except through a preservative process an embalmer would love (I've known many)

And maintaining a illusion of Incorruptibility for the Laity Is seriously bizarre"

There are true cases of incorruptible saints. See the book by Joan Carroll Cruz, "The Incorruptibles". This article seems focused primarily on the ones that aren't authentically incorruptible and which, if these accounts are accurate, cannot be condoned.

16 posted on 03/23/2014 8:21:54 PM PDT by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: Alex Murphy
The Catholic belief of “incorruptibility” holds that if a body does not decay after death, the person is holy.

Since when?

17 posted on 03/23/2014 8:23:29 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod (Democrats are Cruz'n for a Bruisin' in 2016.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Kewel...


18 posted on 03/23/2014 8:24:27 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: HangnJudge

I was never taught this as a doctrine of the Church, through 13 years of Catholic education.


19 posted on 03/23/2014 8:25:20 PM PDT by steve8714
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To: Alex Murphy

The catholics are one wacky tribe.


20 posted on 03/23/2014 8:26:45 PM PDT by logitech (It is time.)
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To: WXRGina
"Really? Other than the prophecies of Jesus' body not seeing corruption and him not being left in death, where is that written in the Bible? I would like to know.

We are told in John's Gospel that Lazarus was in the grave for 4 days, at which time there would have been "a stench". However, Jesus managed to restore not only his life, but reversed the decaying process that had already taken place. I don't see God being limited in any way, do you?

21 posted on 03/23/2014 8:26:49 PM PDT by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: fidelis

No, I don’t see God being limited, because He’s not, but I see what’s being talked about on this thread in regard to catholicism as nothing more than unbiblical suppositions.


22 posted on 03/23/2014 8:31:00 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: HangnJudge
Being Catholic: Sacred Things, Relics and the Incorruptibles
23 posted on 03/23/2014 8:32:21 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: fidelis; HangnJudge

Necromancy is when someone tries to contact the dead to gain information from them. That is what Saul did. A saint’s body found to be be incorruptible is nothing like necromancy.


What’s described in this article is more like Necrophilia.


24 posted on 03/23/2014 8:33:51 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: fidelis
This article seems focused primarily
on the ones that aren't authentically incorruptible
and which, if these accounts are accurate,
cannot be condoned.

Accepted

I despise magical thinking,
it is a breach of Reason and Logic
and worse, deliberate attempts of illusions,
to cause same

The Vatican is in no way alone in this
The Protestants can be quite as guilty
As are a wide array of institutions
Deliberate attempts to corrupt clear thought are EVERYWHERE

25 posted on 03/23/2014 8:33:55 PM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: steve8714; HangnJudge
I was never taught this as a doctrine of the Church, through 13 years of Catholic education.

During Catechism I was taught that the bodies of Saints were often uncorrupted after death and smelled of flowers.

I converted to Christianity.

26 posted on 03/23/2014 8:36:15 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: fidelis
The Church does not claim that ALL those who lived saintly lives will be incorruptible. It only happens to a few, apparently at God's discretion.

But according to the practices called out in the article, the church doesn't wait for God's discretion before they start soaking and shellacking and wax-coating their deceased. I'm honestly surprised that Tupperware didn't rate a mention. It works on almost anything!


27 posted on 03/23/2014 8:38:15 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Alex Murphy

The Vatican is cool; since it can do what ever is warranted- “by the blood of Jesus, and his mommy,” to justify every known act of lower human nature in the supposed chair priests of Peter. This improbable throne is unknown to God, Son and Holy Spirit. Hey, get holy, get right and stop lying to yourselves.


28 posted on 03/23/2014 8:49:42 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: logitech

There is not one scintilla of evidence or documentation in that article. Sanctity is based on heroic virtue not the stae of their body.


30 posted on 03/23/2014 9:17:50 PM PDT by amihow
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To: Alex Murphy
The Catholic belief of “incorruptibility” holds that if a body does not decay after death, the person is holy.

An idiot wrote this.

There is no "Catholic belief" of incorruptibility. It's a miracle that is sometimes observed in the bodies of people of great sanctity. (The Orthodox have observed the same miracle in some cases, BTW.)

Many very great saints were not incorrupt after death. St. Therese of Liseux even laughed at the idea when someone suggested to her during her life that her body might be incorrupt after death (it wasn't).

So incorruption is hardly a sine qua non of sanctity. If achieved by means that can be explained either by nature or chemistry, it's not a sign of sanctity, either.

At some point, idiocy like this in the press passes beyond the stage of sweetly innocent ignorance into an organized, deliberate effort to paint Catholics as dangerous freaks. It begins to remind one of some of the anti-Semitic nonsense that circulated around Europe around the turn of the last century.

31 posted on 03/23/2014 9:18:13 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: WXRGina

You think every miracle God has ever done, or ever will do, is recorded in Scripture? Seriously?


32 posted on 03/23/2014 9:19:33 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: T bench

There is only God


33 posted on 03/23/2014 9:19:47 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: logitech

Thank you for demonstrating my point. You have learned exactly the lesson the lamestream media wanted you to learn. Congratulations.


34 posted on 03/23/2014 9:20:28 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion

What about the part about taking body parts, and even wearing them?

That seems pretty freaky to Americans.


35 posted on 03/23/2014 9:26:42 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: Alex Murphy

Just another “lying wonder” of popery. Anyone who believes these ridiculous claims is under strong delusion.

“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
—2 Thessalonians 2:9-12


36 posted on 03/23/2014 9:28:40 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: ansel12
Body parts? You want to talk "body parts" and "freaky to Americans"? Seriously?

Murdering 53 million children in cold blood for the sake of convenience, flushing their body parts down the sewer system and calling it a "constitutional right" seems way beyond "freaky" to Catholics. But that's the "America" you're defending as some sort of arbiter of what's "freaky," isn't it?

BTW, you also learned the lesson the lamestream media wanted you to learn. Congratulations.

37 posted on 03/23/2014 9:33:36 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: WXRGina

You are correct, and I’m a saint!


38 posted on 03/23/2014 9:33:56 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: fidelis

We die, we get new bodies, who cares what happens to the old? This is beyond bizarre.


39 posted on 03/23/2014 9:35:24 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: Campion

Yeah, I’m wondering about the part where they take body parts, and even wear them.

What is that about?


40 posted on 03/23/2014 9:35:55 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: .45 Long Colt

Wow, that verse sums up the entire Catholic religion nicely.

I need to memorize more of my bible again, I’ve been slacking since my battalion days.


41 posted on 03/23/2014 9:38:10 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: Bulwyf

That passage is in reference to antichrist. Most of the old Protestant confessions identified the papacy as antichrist. Up until just over 100 years ago just about every Protestant knew the identity of antichrist and the great whore of Revelation. Rome (and Satan) must love all the prophecy pimps and weak easily-led preachers who have come along and obscured the truth.

Interestingly enough it was hearing an interview with a former priest that got me to begin studying the writings of historic Protestants. I had no idea how definite and united they were on this topic.

Here is what Spurgeon had to say:

“”It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. If there were to be issued a hue and cry for Antichrist, we should certainly take up this church on suspicion, and it would certainly not be let loose again, for it so exactly answers the description.”

“Popery is contrary to Christ’s Gospel, and is the Antichrist, and we ought to pray against it. It should be the daily prayer of every believer that Antichrist might be hurled like a millstone into the flood and for Christ, because it wounds Christ, because it robs Christ of His glory, because it puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread into the place of the Saviour, and a few drops of water into the place of the Holy Ghost, and puts a mere fallible man like ourselves up as the vicar of Christ on earth; if we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors: we shall love their souls though we loath and detest their dogmas, and so the breath of our prayers will be sweetened, because we turn our faces towards Christ when we pray.”

Antichrist in Our Midst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1OCYXUhUoU


42 posted on 03/23/2014 9:52:05 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: Bulwyf
 photo jammu_madarssa_student_061012.jpg
43 posted on 03/23/2014 10:15:20 PM PDT by JPX2011
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To: All
KEYWORDS: catholic; incorruptibility; moacb; relics; Click to Add Keyword

Well, lookie there.

44 posted on 03/23/2014 10:46:33 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Former Fetus
It was hard to recognize it as a real body

But it was real... just like my x'x roasts are..(she way over cooks all the cuts of meat she makes).
Like I said, my "X".. there was a reason for the 'X' in the sentence and in reality.
45 posted on 03/23/2014 11:16:37 PM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS.. We are DOOMED for several generations. . Who cares? Dem's did and voted!)
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To: logitech

yeah, but they did beat Roman Empire....


46 posted on 03/23/2014 11:19:35 PM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS.. We are DOOMED for several generations. . Who cares? Dem's did and voted!)
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To: amihow

Yes but this article posting was take by many as a good chance to bash Catholic Church by many....


47 posted on 03/23/2014 11:24:43 PM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS.. We are DOOMED for several generations. . Who cares? Dem's did and voted!)
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To: Campion
every miracle

Yeah, like bees when they make honey take most if not all of the poisons out of the raw material they process to make honey with their tiny little bodies.

That is just amazing and a miracle for real. Then honey is an antibiotic and keeps for years in a refrigerator or on the shelf. They have found it in Egyptian tombs and left by explorers in the most bizarre places and it is still edible!

That is a miracle and beyond amazing.
48 posted on 03/23/2014 11:35:27 PM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS.. We are DOOMED for several generations. . Who cares? Dem's did and voted!)
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To: Bulwyf

Do you mean not caring about dying or what happens when we are dead, or..... what?


49 posted on 03/23/2014 11:38:06 PM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS.. We are DOOMED for several generations. . Who cares? Dem's did and voted!)
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To: Alex Murphy
When Pope Pius XII died in 1958, the Vatican used a wrapping technique similar to what was believed to have been applied to Jesus. It failed miserably. Only days after his death, his nose fell off...

I think they got Jesus mixed up with Michael Jackson. :-P

50 posted on 03/23/2014 11:44:01 PM PDT by uglybiker (nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-BATMAN!)
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