Posted on 05/24/2014 8:26:44 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
When I, a “cradle Catholic,” am accosted by a “born again” Christian, and asked whether I am “saved,” my thoughts usually go to St. Paul’s frequent admonitions to work out your salvation in “fear and trembling.” Even St. Paul, after having been raised to the “seventh heaven,” felt it necessary to chastise his body, lest he become a castaway. (1Cor. 9:27)
The conviction that one is “saved” may be the result of a powerful religious experience. (Catholics have those too!) But people sometimes interpret it like Freud, as something psychological, or just some friendly divine encouragement to keep trying, or perhaps as a sign of God’s mercy in spite of one’s sins.
Personally, I am convinced that, if two-thirds of the angels, who never had to suffer, and had clear insight into what would happen if they rebelled, were saved (Rev. 12:4) – certainly at least that percentage or more of us humans, working our way with limited vision through suffering and often messy lives and bad choices, will be saved. Of course, I try to stand clear of the “universal salvation” heresy of Origen and others, condemned at the Council of Constantinople in 543.
That said, it seems to me that Protestants are really missing out on the multiform assistance that the Church could provide, if they were open to it.
(Excerpt) Read more at thecatholicthing.org ...
“Didn’t you learn your lesson from the last time”
“And the truth shall set you free”.
I was baptised, so yes I was “born again”! Praise the Lord and pass the biscuits.
Was the thief on the cross baptized?
Jesus can do anything he feels like doing and that thief went with him to paradise that day.
And yet Christ said in John 10" 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Did the infant confess with its mouth?
Does the baby believe in its heart that Jesus is Lord?
What comes first, the horse or the cart?
Jesus CANNOT contradict himself.
He would not go from saying something is abhorrent and forbidden to saying it is OK and acceptable.
The eating of flesh and the drinking of blood are forbidden.
Pardon, but where does it say Paul was lifted to the “seventh heaven”
I find
2 Corinthians 12:2
“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.”
But Seventh heaven is not as far as the various Bible search engines I have tried in the Old or New Testament.
http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=seventh+heaven&qs_version=NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=seventh+heaven&qs_version=KJV
The wailing and gnashing of teeth is precisely because these are not petty squabbles. Failure to recognize that The Eucharist is Jesus Christ really, truly and substantially present is no small matter.
The protestant has forsaken the Truth of Christ and Divine Revelation for their own interpretation that conforms to their pre-established secular worldview. And in doing so, in creating this epoch of rationalism and radical individualism the protestant mind has destroyed Western Civilization. To the point where we are now about to be overun by islamists and atheistic sodomites.
But to address your comment on a broader scale I wish we could, as you say, be united in our work against the atheist and the mohammedan. Unfortunately the dischord springs from the same source: the notion of man as sole authortiy to determine truth. Man isn’t conforming himself to Truth he is making it in his own image.
So when Catholics argue with Protestants it is, in essence, the same fight we have with atheists and muslims albeit on different battle fields. And quite frankly, the argument for unity for the expressed purpose of tactical advantage isn’t, strictly speaking, convincing. Particularly when one considers that it is the Reformation which has put us in this position.
I know this has very little to do with this thread, but regarding this specific question, Our Lord Jesus Christ died before the believing thief. Verses 32-33 of Chapter 19 of the Gospel of John
John 19:30-37
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
But that is a minor side point. You are correct. Church membership won't save you. The Lord Jesus Christ Saves - and the Lord Jesus Christ alone.
Which presupposes that one believes that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ to begin with. Which puts them in the position of denying the Lord.
The Lord Jesus Christ Saves - and the Lord Jesus Christ alone
Why do you put the Lord Jesus Christ in this man made artificial box? Even in praise the protestant can't stop protesting. They can't just say, "The Lord Jesus Christ Saves". Always the disclaimer lest someone get the wrong idea.
Priesthood ?
There are only 5 uses of the word Priesthood in the new testament
Hebrews 7:11
1 Now if there was perfection through the Levitical priesthood (for under it hath the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should arise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be reckoned after the order of Aaron?
(speaking of the Leviitical priesthood that was being replaced)
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
(the change in the law ending the Levitical priesthood)
Hebrews 7:24 but he, because he abideth for ever, hath his priesthood unchangeable.
(speaking of Christ as an enduing and unchanging Priesthood)
Peter 2:5 ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
(speaking to all that now followed the “Living Stone” which is Christ.
Peter 2:9 But ye are a elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light
(also to all those that followed the Christ)
As with all discussions of the Bible it is my hope to have done well and not to have misapplied teachings therein.
It's because of the Protestants that Western Civilization is destroyed??? Gimme a break! Why don't Catholics ever look to their church's OWN condition during the Reformation? Better yet, why not look to the schism Rome caused even centuries before then between the East and West? Individualism is more a product of the Enlightenment and the Age of Reason than the Reformation, since the Reformers sought to RETURN the Christian community to the truth of Christ, divine revelation and the faith as it was once delivered unto the saints - before sacradotalism, superstition, paganism, nepotism and general debauchery took over into the upper echelons of church hierarchy and the gospel was perverted. The Reformation didn't happen in a vacuum. God was behind it!
The fighting that continues between Catholics and Protestants (like on these threads) is NOT because Catholics are trying to "save the world" from destroying itself, but because of an attitude of elitism and superiority and an inability to recognize the commonality we share in the major tenets of the Christian faith. Though our differences are NOT insignificant, far too few FRoman Catholics participate on threads where we CAN agree on doctrine and be united against some who defend what we both agree is heresy (i.e., the Deity of Jesus Christ).
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Why don't Catholics ever look to their church's OWN condition during the Reformation?
To what end? That history is ancient. So some corrupt people were selling indulgences. There were bad popes, blah blah blah. Big deal. What's the difference between a protestant today whining about the selling of indulgences in the 16th century and Muslims today bemoaning the Crusades? Nothing.
Am I supposed to share in some guilt over all of it? I think not. Besides I thought we rejected the notion of collective guilt anyway as a device used by the left.
Besides, it's not as if Catholic thought is the order of the modern age. It's definitely protestant. So while we discard the excesses and failures of those within The Church to its proper place in the ashbin of history we unfortunately can't do that with protestantism since its thinking permeates to this day.
As for sacredotalism, well you'll have to take that up with God since he instituted it in His Church, "This is My body." Whether protestants agree/disagree is irrelevant. Truth be told it's not for them to say. For the Catholic Church is sole authority for interpreting Sacred Scripture. It is not for them. Unfortunately it is the post-modern protestant mind which says "it is my right..." to engage in sodomy, to abort my unborn children, to interpret scripture as I see fit.
Superstition
And now that the protestant has been enlightened they are the keepers of reason and won't fall for such "hocus pocus" that is The Eucharist. It makes me wonder how this protestant mindset differs from the modern day atheist and all of their talk of, "magic friends in the sky" and "flying spaghetti monsters." It doesn't. Not really. It's all born out of derision. The refuge of those who see the Truth but will not acknowledge it.
And yet, the protestants can't but help practice their own hocus pocus by thinking they are saved for all time by the use of incantation involving the name of Christ. Yeah, okay. We'll see at the last judgment how that worked out for them. "Not all who say Lord Lord will be saved."
paganism
You mean the kind of paganism engaged in by protestants who adopt secular marketing campaigns in an attempt to spread their particular brand of error? Got milk? Got Jesus? In effect baptizing these things for their own ends. Maybe they should stop making t-shirts and playing rock band in their "houses of worship" and contemplate the mysteries of the Faith. They might be better off. And wearing a WWJD bracelet doesn't count.
...gospel was perverted
You only have the Gospels because of the Catholic Church. To hear protestants tell it, for 1,500 years there was nothing but The Great Lie before good 'ol Marty came along to straighten everything out. All Hail Luther! Talk about giving someone a break. The only perversion there was came out of his mind and his sycophants that followed abusing the Scriptures for their own devious and perverse ends. Which continues to this day. Protestants have no trouble finding scriptural warrant for sodomy, abortion, contraception, etc. And why not at the end of the day it's just them. Don't like what scripture says? They put the book back on the shelf and go and do it anyway. The silver lining of being your own magisterium.
The fighting that continues between Catholics and Protestants (like on these threads) is NOT because Catholics are trying to "save the world" from destroying itself, but because of an attitude of elitism and superiority
What is this? The grown-up version of, "No you can't tell me what to do?" That's what it sure sounds like. Protestants know who has the authority. But reject and insert their own.
And when western civilization reaches its end as the result of the natural progression of protestant thinking whose going to be there to pick up the pieces? Some itinerant preacher our of central casting for Mad Max? No. It will be the Catholic Church. Having to start again after the failed protestant experiment.
I don’t see the word alone in any of those scriptural passages.
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