Pope, Orthodox Patriarch Look to New Council at Nicea

Catholic Culture ^ | 5/30/14

[marshmallow]

Pope Francis and Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople have agreed to plan for an ecumenical council to be held in Nicea in 2025, the AsiaNews service reports.

Patriarch Bartholomew revealed that he and the Roman Pontiff had “agreed to leave as a legacy to ourselves and our successors a gathering in Nicaea in 2025, to celebrate together, after 17 centuries, the first truly ecumenical synod, where the Creed was first promulgated.” The Council of Nicea, held in 325, brought together over 300 bishops and approved the formula of faith now known as the Nicene Creed.

[Heart-Rest]

"If they are going to have a council, MUCH better to have it at Nicea than to have a "Vatican III", which would sound like the continuation of Vatican II, a Council that in many ways seemed dated as soon as Peter, Paul and Mary stopped hitting the Top 40."

"Why is it that all of the cool places to have a Council are now in a Muslim country?"

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♫ ♪  "...the answer my friend is blowin' in the wind..."  ♪ ♫

[dangus]

The sale of indulgences were banned during the Fourth Lateran Council (1215). In 1392, Pope Bonaface condemned many religious for selling indulgences, so it’s evident that abuses occured after that ban, but it’s equally obvious how strenuously the Vatican opposed the sale of indulgences.

Many people believe that people bought indulgences so as to allow them to commit further sin. It’s hard to say that no fool would believe such a thing possible, but such a notion would hardly require a new ban from the Vatican; the prayers of the medieval rite of confession make plain the necessity of sincere repentance from sin for the confession to be valid. More likely, people were trying to buy cheap atonement, which is still theologically absurd, but at least plausibly believed in by the simple-minded and uneducated.

Ironically, we now see this guaranteed ticket straight to Heaven freely offered throughout so much of the PROTESTANT world, where the prosperity gospel affirms you can know of your salvation despite future sins ... and also get rich ... by casting your bread on the waters... and to their ministry. In fairness, though, this prosperity gospel is vehemently opposed by most of the worst Catholic-slandering Freepers.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

“Pope, Orthodox Patriarch Look to New Council at Nice”

WHY!

[DManA]

Your answer is a non sequitur.

And “prots” - stay classy.

[CTrent1564]

Ahhh, a “protestant” using Holy Mother Catholic Churches language of Latin.

Except it is not a non sequitor. Trust me, there are lots of Protestants who use Orthodox views and oppose them against Catholic doctrines, whereas those 2 Churches are not that different. If there is, by God’s grace, a full restoration of full communion between Rome and the Orthodox, it is not a fallacy or illogical answer to assert that indeed some protestant head will “allegorically explode” Yours will not perhaps, but many will.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

I'm not sure what this means, but it's tremendously exciting.

Pray for unity!

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

First, they were sold. Second, they could be sold again in the same way - without sanction, but probably with knowledge. Third, I expect money doesn’t overtly change hands. It is likely more of a large gift to the church in exchange. Fourth, they do not publicize this.

It's not necessary to speculate. Indulgences aren't any great secret.

Primer on Indulgences

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“It’s not necessary to speculate. Indulgences aren’t any great secret.”

Sadly, if the granting of indulgences for money or favors is happening secretly today - as it seems to have happened in the past - you would not know anything about it.

Sadly again, the whole concept is false. It was an eternal fraud when they were sold.

[piusv]

I wish Catholics would stop using the “unity” term. It is misleading. I’m not sure how often it needs to be said, but it apparently needs to be said again: per Traditional Catholic teaching, unity is already found in the Catholic Church. All other churches need to join the Catholic Church. To speak as if there still needs to be unity is FALSE.

[BlatherNaut]

I wish Catholics would stop using the “unity” term. It is misleading. I’m not sure how often it needs to be said, but it apparently needs to be said again: per Traditional Catholic teaching, unity is already found in the Catholic Church. All other churches need to join the Catholic Church. To speak as if there still needs to be unity is FALSE.

Some of this confusion is undoubtably the result of the behavior of certain shepherds. Their highly publicized ecumenical meetings and remarks create the impression that mutual compromise is underway.

[Biggirl]

I say that both sides need to admit their mistakes.

Got to remember with an increasing threat coming from Islam and seculaziation, Christians need to put aside past differences.

[Straight Vermonter]

Why is it that all of the cool places to have a Council are now in a Muslim country?

Because despite what we were taught in school the crusades were not just a bunch of evil Christians imposing their will on peace loving Muslim people.

[FormerLib]

I’m not sure how often it needs to be said, but it apparently needs to be said again: per Traditional Catholic teaching, unity is already found in the Catholic Church. All other churches need to join the Catholic Church.

So long as you understand that when you say "the Catholic Church" to the Orthodox, they believe you are referring to them and not the Roman Catholic Church.

[DManA]

If there is a full restoration either the Pope will have to step down off his throne or the Orthodox will have to kneel and kiss his ring.

If either one of those things happen there will be far more Roman and Orthodox heads exploding.

[BlatherNaut]

I say that both sides need to admit their mistakes.

Which side is mistaken in regard to Filioque and Papal Supremacy? These "stumbling blocks" cannot be swept away for the sake of "unity". The issue is boolean. Papal Supremacy and Roman Catholic theology are either true or false. Parallel lines never meet, but the Bishop of Rome seems to be subtly veering off the track with public comments favorable to Orthodox theology (such as his comments regarding marriage and divorce) and ostentatiously downplaying the role of the papacy. Time will tell how far he is prepared to abandon Truth in pursuit of "unity".

[CTrent1564]

DManA:

Actually, the Pope knelled and kissed the Hand of the Patriarch when they were in Jerusalem, a sign of genuine respect to the Patriarch, and something that comes from Saint Francis of Assisi. As the story goes, Saint Francis entered a town and the town priest had in essence a mistress. The town looked and waited to see what Francis would do when he met the priest, as the story goes, Saint Francis kissed the hands of the priest and said something to the effect that while yes you are sinning, your ordination allows you to make Christ present at the sacrament of the altar [Eucharist].

And no, Pope Francis did not step down once he got back to Rome and nobody is calling him to step down due to kissing the Patriarch’s hand. Nooo, I have been around long enough to realize that many Protestant heads will “allegorically explode” as the Orthodox vs. Catholic thing will no longer have merit.

Interestingly, I remember when I was in graduate school some 20 years ago sitting in the Campus Cafeteria and there were always the southern fundie yahoo types when they found out I was Catholic, man they came after me lack a pack of wolves. Of course, I was able to handle myself and they eventually left me alone, although some sort realized that Catholics aren’t from Pink Floyd’ dark side of the moon.

Funny thing about these southern fundie protestant types that I have dealt with all my life [I have only lived in 3 states, all south of the Mason-Dixon line], but often times, the vitriolic attacks on each others Protestant doctrine can be similar to what happens when the protestant fundies ban together vs. Catholics. That sort of mentality, in my view, is very prevalent here among FR Protestants but I have always maintained that if they would all disclose which of the various protestant sects they belong to, all hell would break loose.

The King James only types were always funny to listen too, especially when they went after their fellow protestants who adopted the Protestant NIV translation. The more serious “head exploding” was when the Calvinist and Arminians went after each other. This is still an ongoing debate, I have some “Southern Baptist friends” very reasonable and non fundie types who have told me about the ongoing Calvinist vs. non-Calvinist views within the SBC. The Arminian theology which is present in some Baptist circles, as well as Methodist and some Anglicanism vs. the Calvinist debate, as I said, is still very hot. I did a google search and I found this blog, very interesting.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2014/05/do-arminians-and-calvinists-worship-the-same-god/

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

If the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Apostolic Church, what mistakes has she to admit? The minor differences (eg whether or not a priest NEEDS to have a facial thicket worthy of Grizzly Adams) can be worked out, but the major theological differences on issues such as the nature of grace and the nature of The Holy Spirit cannot be resolved without absolute, total capitulation by one side or the other. And that cannot happen without one side admitting to centuries of horrifyingly grace doctrinal error. Are the Orthodox willing to make this admission? Because that is what it will take.

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

"horrifyingly grace"

*Horrifyingly grave, that is.

[ebb tide]

I say that both sides need to admit their mistakes.

Are you stating the Catholic Church, the Immaculate Bride of Christ, is not Immaculate? Because it sure sounds like you are.

[Biggirl]

It is not the Church I was refering to, and you are WRONG, but YOU FORGET that we are refering to weak,sinful individuals.