Revelation 12 Sign Compendium

Unsealed.org ^ | 1/11/17 | Gary

[amessenger4god]

By now you've probably heard about what a number of Christians are calling the Revelation 12 Sign that will supposedly occur on Saturday, September 23rd, 2017.  There is a lot of rampant speculation on the internet both for and against the legitimacy of this sign and much information to weed through.  What's true?  What's false?  Is this all hype?  The goal of this article is to provide readers with a comprehensive and straightforward analysis of the purported sign, addressing many questions and concerns.  The three sections below cover the sign itself, it's possible significance, and claims and critiques about the sign.  I suspect this article will be updated as new information is uncovered, so please feel free to add items of interest in the Comments below.

A Great Sign

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.  She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.  Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.  Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.  She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

- Revelation 12:1-5

The astronomical alignment that so many are now pointing to comes from a literal reading of Revelation 12:1-5, which describes a sign in the sky involving a woman who is crowned with twelve stars, clothed with the sun, having the moon under her feet, and giving birth to a male child.  The text itself does not describe the sign as a parable or illustration, which validates the view that this passage is in fact describing a real astronomical event visible to the inhabitants of the earth - complete with real sun, moon, and stars.  Each of the elements described in the sign have significant prophetic and allegorical meaning as will be shown, but the passage itself describes first and foremost a real sign and so any accurate interpretation must begin with that premise.  Lacking any evidence that the Apostle John was not describing a sign visible in the sky as the text plainly says, the burden of proof is entirely upon those who would argue that this passage is only pure allegory.

It is also important to note that these five verses purposefully distinguish between two different signs.  The first sign, which the text calls "a great sign", involves only a woman in labor, and so includes Revelation 12:1-2 and Revelation 12:5.  The second sign, called "another sign", is described in Revelation 12:3-4.  The signs are connected in the narrative, but their distinction tells us that they are not the same and this is the likely reason that only the first sign has been apparently identified in the Fall of 2017.  A number of different explanations for the second sign have been offered, such as an as of yet unseen stellar or planetary body, but that is not the topic of this study.  Our focus is entirely on the "great sign".

There is some question as to who first made the discovery in its most primordial form, but sometime in 2012 it was observed using astronomy software that a specific alignment of constellations, planets, the sun, and moon would appear to fulfill a literal reading of Revelation 12:1-2 and Revelation 12:5.  Here are each of the elements involved in the alignment:

The Constellation Virgo

Virgo, Latin for "virgin" or "maiden", is the second largest constellation in the sky and one of the twelve constellations of the Zodiac and Jewish Mazzaroth (the constellations that the sun appears to move through during the course of the year).  In most depictions it features twelve principal stars as can be seen in the picture above.  Spica, along with three other stars, form a womb-of-sorts at the center of the constellation.  Virgo is universally depicted as a woman, even in the ancient Grecian, Roman, and Assyrian-Babylonian cultures and for this reason it is argued that this is the "woman" John saw in the sky.  It is the only constellation in the Zodiac and Mazzaroth that represents a woman, and out of the 88 constellations in the entire celestial sphere, it is one of only three constellations that represent women (the other two being Andromeda and Cassiopeia).

The Sun

Our solar system's star is mentioned by name in Revelation 12:1 as part of the sign.  It is said to "clothe" the woman.  From the perspective of a viewer on earth, the sun is always much smaller than Virgo and therefore it cannot be the disc of the sun itself that clothes her in any arrangement, but on September 23rd it will rest upon her shoulder and the sign will be entirely "clothed" in sunlight during the day on September 22nd and 23rd, hiding Virgo from view.

The Moon

The lunar body is also mentioned by name in Revelation 12:1, described as residing under the woman's feet.  On September 23rd, from the perspective of a viewer in the Middle East, Virgo will appear prone and the moon will appear directly under the feet of the constellation.

A Crown Of Twelve Stars

It is not uncommon for Virgo to be "clothed" in the sun and to have the moon under or near her feet - in fact it happens every year for a number of days in the Fall.  It is the crown of twelve stars that John saw that really begins to set this sign apart.  This is far, far more rare.  The Hebrew and Greek words for "star" do not distinguish between stars as we know them today and planets.  From the perspective of an earth-based observer, stars and planets look the same except that planets appear to move through the field of fixed stars.  For this reason, planets were sometimes described in the ancient languages as "wandering", but they were still called stars.  Situated directly above the head of the constellation Virgo is the constellation Leo ("The Lion"), composed of nine principal stars as shown above.  On September 22nd and 23rd the visible planets Mercury, Mars, and Venus will join Leo's nine stars to form a "crown" of twelve stars on the head of Virgo.

The Planet Jupiter

Jupiter, the largest planet in our solar system, is said to represent the male child that the woman is giving birth to.  There seem to be some very good reasons for making this connection.

First of all, almost all commentaries on Revelation 12 throughout Church history have identified the male child in the passage with Jesus Christ (though not only Jesus Christ as will be discussed later).  It seems obvious enough: on one level the woman represents Mary, the baby is Jesus, and the dragon in the second sign represents satan.  The child is "caught up" to God's throne in the passage and Jesus ascended into Heaven.  Jesus will also rule all the nations when He returns as the passage describes the child as doing.  A number of theories about the Star of Bethlehem have posited that Jupiter was that very star - Christ's star.  Like Christ, Jupiter is covered in stripes (Isaiah 53:5) and has a very prominent hole called the Great Red Spot, similar to Christ's spear wound (John 19:34).  Also like Christ, Jupiter "takes the blow" for us (Isaiah 53:4-6), absorbing most of the lethal comets and asteroids from the outer solar system that would otherwise strike earth.

Second, the planet is named after the king of the gods in the ancient Roman and Greek pantheons (Jupiter and Zeus, respectively).  In ancient Babylonian and Germanic pantheons the planet represented the son of their respective chief deities: Marduk son of Ea, and Thor son of Odin.  In other words, in the ancient world Jupiter was always associated with either the greatest male deity or that deity's son.  Jupiter is therefore frequently called the "king planet".

Third, on November 20th, 2016, the planet Jupiter entered the womb of the constellation Virgo where it will remain for exactly 42 weeks, the precise length of a long human gestation.  A crown of twelve stars above Virgo's head is rare, but this is rarer still.  In order for Jupiter to remain in the womb for such a lengthy and precise amount of time, it undergoes an extremely rare retrograde motion in the constellation.  The planet actually appears to make a giant circle within the womb during this time before exiting on September 9th, 2017.  The sign in Revelation 12 completes in verse 5 after the child is born and likewise two weeks after Jupiter exits the womb, it moves down the celestial birthing canal and the complete sign is formed in the sky.  It could be said that the woman is in labor for two weeks as the baby moves out of the womb and through the canal.

The Complete Picture

The picture above shows the complete sign as it will appear from Israel on September 23rd, 2017.  It also shows the different positions of Jupiter within the womb of Virgo as it circles around during the 42 week gestation.  Scottie Clark, the first to put all these pieces together, talks about the precision of the sign here:

The Significance

My personal study of Revelation 12 (much credit given to Jeff E., Scottie Clark, and Daniel Matson, among many others) has led me to believe that the entire chapter, which occurs right in the middle of the book, is an interlude and broad overview of the entire Tribulation, describing all of the key events except for the Second Coming of Christ.  Revelation 12 appears to describe the Tribulation in chronological order, except for verse 6:

Revelation 12:1-5: The rapture of the Church.

Revelation 12:7-12: The future war in Heaven that occurs simultaneously with the rapture or very shortly after.  The accuser and his accusing angels are cast out of Heaven as the Church gains entrance into Heaven.  You might call this the Cosmic Shift: the Church goes up and the devil comes down.  Satan and his angels are then confined to earth.

Revelation 12:13: The persecution of the Jewish remnant on earth during the first half of the Tribulation.

Revelation 12:14-16, 6: The Jewish remnant's protection and provision while the remaining three and one-half years of the Tribulation comes to a conclusion.

Revelation 12:17: Recognizing that the Jewish remnant is then untouchable, satan turns his attention towards the remaining Gentile Tribulation Saints.

In order to fully understand the chapter's narrative you have to understand that the three key players represent both individuals and corporate entities:

The Woman: Mary And Israel

Throughout Church history it seemed self-evident to identify the woman in this passage with Mary, the mother of Jesus: she gave birth to the male child who will rule all the nations.  She was also persecuted by a dragon-of-sorts in the form of Herod and God protected her and her family in Egypt.  This is the individual that the woman represents.

Corporately, however, the woman represents Israel.  This is indicated not only by the very Jewishness of a crown of twelve stars (the twelve tribes of Israel), but by the narrative overall.  The woman is the one protected in the wilderness on earth and a key distinction is made between her and her offspring (first the male child and second her other offspring in verse 17).  Some have argued that the woman represents the Church, but this position is untenable because the Church didn't give birth to Christ.  For these three reasons, virtually all dispensationalists and even many covenant theologians associate the woman with Israel.

The Dragon: Satan And The Kingdom Of Antichrist

The dragon is an explicit representation of satan (Revelation 12:9), which leaves no guesswork on our part.

Corporately, it is straightforward to understand that the dragon represents the antichrist and his kingdom, because it is through the kingdom of antichrist that the dragon actually persecutes Israel and the future Tribulation Saints.  This corporate understanding is further proven by the dragon's seven heads and ten horns, which are connected to the antichrist's dominion (Revelation 17:9) and the world rulers who will give him his authority (Revelation 17:12, Daniel 7:20-22).

The Male Child: Christ And His Church

Jesus Christ is clearly in view in the passage.  He was born from Mary, is coming to rule all the nations, and ascended to Heaven.

However, just as the woman and the dragon have corporate meanings, the child follows the same pattern.  In the passage itself there are five key pieces of evidence that tell us the Church is also in view, borrowing from Dallas Theological Seminary professor Michael Svigel:

1. Consistency in Symbolism. The woman represents a corporate entity (Israel, see Genesis 37:9–10); the Dragon represents a corporate entity (the world system controlled by Satan, see the total of seven heads and ten horns in the series of monsters in Daniel 7:1–7) and the male child as the body of Christ would also represent a corporate entity (Christ in union with His body, the Church, see 1 Corinthians 12:12, etc.).

2. Allusion to Isaiah 66:7-8. The use of the neuter adjective arsen (male) modifying the masculine noun huios (son) and the image of Israel giving birth points careful readers back to Isaiah 66:7–8, where we read in the Septuagint (Greek version of the Old Testament): “Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy (arsen). Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her children.” The image is parallel in Revelation, and John explicitly breaks the rules of Greek grammar (modifying the masculine “son” with the neuter “male”) to point us back to this passage in Isaiah 66. The child in both cases is corporate, not individual.

3. Symbolic Background of Daniel 7. I think John uses the term huios (son) in Revelation 12:5 to connect us to the vision of the “Son of Man” in Daniel 7:13–14, which is interpreted corporately as the Messiah and His saints in 7:18; 26–27. John uses the term “son” in Revelation 12:5, literally “she gave birth to a son, a male,” not the term “child,” as most translations render it. Most people miss that the “Son of Man” in Daniel 7 is interpreted by the angel corporately, which fits well with Revelation 12:5’s “male son” interpreted corporately as the body of Christ. Also, the image of the seven heads and ten horns of the dragon symbol earlier in this vision already pointed us back to Daniel 7, which seems to stand behind this vision of Revelation 12.

4. The Male Child is “Snatched Up.” The word in Revelation 12:5 is the word for “rapture,” harpazo, and always means a sudden removal, a snatching. In contrast, for the ascension of Christ, the New Testament uses terms such as “to be lifted up,” epairo (Acts 1:9), “to ascend,” anabaino (John 20:17; Ephesians 4:8-10) and “to take up,” analambano (Mark 16:19; Luke 1:11). These are neutral terms meaning a removal from one place to another. Revelation 12:5 has the male child being suddenly snatched away from the dragon, who wants to devour the child. The ascension of Christ was gradual (Acts 1:10), not sudden. Also, Revelation 12:5 is a context of “rescue” from the threat of the dragon. The word “rapture,” harpazo, is appropriately used in the New Testament for a rescue in Acts 23:10 and Jude 23. In His ascension to heaven, Christ was not rescued, but ascended victoriously and was no danger from the devil or anybody else. The term “rapture,” harpazo, is never used of Christ’s ascension to heaven. Thus, the use of harpazo in a rescue context like Revelation 12:5 is completely inappropriate to describe the ascension of Christ, but is completely appropriate to describe the rapture of the church as a rescue from Satan’s emerging efforts to destroy the church as we approach the end times.

5. Corporate application of Psalm 2:9 in Revelation 2:26-27; 12:5; and 19:14-15. In Psalm 2:9, God tells the Messiah, “You will break them [the nations] with a rod of iron, You will shatter them like earthenware.” In Revelation 2:26-27, Christ extends this promise to the Church, the body of Christ: “And he who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received [authority] from My Father.” In Revelation 19:14-15, Christ and the armies come to earth, fulfilling the promise: “And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white [and] clean, were following Him on white horses. And from His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may smite the nations; and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.” This same Psalm is quoted in Revelation 12:5 and applied to the male child. Thus, the male child as Christ in union with His body, the Church, is most consistent with the application of the promise of Psalm 2:9 extended both to Christ and the Church.

In summary, the significance of the Revelation 12 sign may be the rapture of the Church, the beginning of the cosmic war in Heaven, and God's redemptive focus returning to Israel and the Jews (Micah 5:3).  The Revelation 12 sign on September 23rd, 2017, also happens to fall on what will likely be the first or second day of Rosh Hashanah, determined by the sighting of the new moon.  This could be incredibly significant because for many years students of Bible prophecy have speculated that Rosh Hashanah (also called Yom Teruah or "The Feast of Trumpets") is the most likely time of year for the rapture.

There are seven biblical feasts (Leviticus 23:4-44) and Jesus fulfilled the first four in order:

The Feast of Passover - fulfilled by His death

The Feast of Unleavened Bread - fulfilled by His sinless life and burial

The Feast of First Fruits - fulfilled by His resurrection

The Feast of Pentecost - fulfilled by Jesus sending the Holy Spirit to indwell the Church

The very next feast in chronological order is The Feast of Trumpets, which happens to fall on September 22nd and 23rd in 2017 - when the possible sign occurs.

Claims And Critiques

Looking for "signs" in the sky is astrology.

This is FALSE.  Astrology is an idolatrous and occultic practice that often involves the deification of stars, planets, and moons.  Astrologers often teach that these heavenly bodies control life on earth.  To the contrary, the search for biblical signs in the heavens recognizes that it is the Creator God who made all things and set everything into motion in a preordained pattern.  The heavenly bodies themselves have no power over our lives and we do not worship them.

The Bible says explicitly that there will be signs in the sky preceding the return of Christ (Matthew 24:30, Luke 21:11, Luke 21:25, Revelation 12:1-3).  The Bible also says that the sun, moon, and stars were created for three reasons: 1. To separate day from night, 2. To give light to the earth, and 3. To indicate days, years, seasons, and signs (Genesis 1:14-15).  Prophetic language frequently makes mention of lunar and solar eclipses (Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20, Revelation 6:12) and God often focuses our attention on the stars (Genesis, 15:5, Isaiah 40:26, Job 38:31, Amos 5:8, Psalm 19:1).

Interestingly, the magi from the east were able to find the baby Jesus by following prophetic descriptions found in Numbers 24:17 and Genesis 49:9-10.  They were able to identify the constellation Leo ("The Lion") with the tribe of Judah and followed the Star of Bethlehem as it moved west and came to rest over Bethlehem.


The Revelation 12 Sign is not unique, it has happened before.

This is also FALSE, with one caveat.  Some argue that this sign occurred in 3915 BC, 3 BC, and 70 AD.  It definitely did not occur in 3 BC or 70 AD, but it did occur on August 5th of 3915 BC, albeit with less precision.  So the caveat is the 3915 BC occurrence where Saturn was in the crown, but Mars was absent.  Jupiter also underwent an approximately nine month retrograde through the womb of Virgo during this time (October 28th, 3916 BC to August 5th, 3915 BC), but a large portion of Jupiter's retrograde took place outside of the womb.

August 27th, 70 AD:

The woman has a crown of twelve stars, but Jupiter and Venus are so close together it makes them hard to distinguish.  The sun and moon are in place, but she has no "male child".  The womb is completely empty.  You could also argue that moon is below her knees, not her feet.

September 11th, 3 BC:

Many have argued that Rosh Hashanah of 3 BC (September 11th) also featured the sign as evidence Christ was born that day, but this only gets two things right: the sun clothes the woman and the moon is under her feet.  There is no crown of twelve stars, the moon is very far away, and she is not giving birth to a "male child".

August 5th, 3915 BC:

Everything matches on this date.  In fact it is such a close match that it has been speculated that this could have been the date of the fall of mankind when God spoke these eerily relevant words to the devil and to Eve in Genesis 3:15-16:

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

Interestingly, in this dialogue the same three entities mentioned in Revelation 12 are also present: the serpent (Revelation 12:9), the woman, and the male child.  The planet Saturn, which some have speculated represents satan, happens to be near the heel of The Lion.


The sign is not visible in Israel.

This is FALSE.  I'm not sure who first made the argument that the constellations in question (Virgo and Leo) will not be in the sky above Israel in Fall 2017, but it simply isn't true. The entire sign will be in the western sky above Israel and Jerusalem on Saturday, September 23rd - and how fitting that the sign that may be heralding the end of the Church Age will be seen right where the sun sets and the day ends. One might argue that observers can't see the alignment because the sun is up, but that's exactly what John saw - the woman is clothed with the sun. And, as a matter of fact, after the sun sets, everything but the woman's crown will be visible in the night sky.

As mentioned, from Israel the sign will be visible in the west.  The possible occurrence in 3915 BC was visible in the east, where the sun rises.  Perhaps this indicates the sun rising and setting on the age of fallen humanity.


The moon is not under the woman's feet. 

This is FALSE.  When I initially studied the alignment I was misled by images showing the woman standing upright with the moon to the right of her feet. The text makes clear that the moon should be under her feet, not beside her feet. For this reason I viewed the heavenly sign with some skepticism. After all, God's Word is perfect and for His Word to be fulfilled it must be fulfilled perfectly. Every condition in the text has to be fulfilled, which is why 70 AD, 3 BC, and 3915 BC don't fit the bill. However, a woman in labor is not standing when she gives birth, she's lying prone, and that's exactly how the alignment is arranged in the sky - the woman is lying prone with her feet up and the moon is directly below her feet, almost as a pillow of sorts.


What John saw was symbolic.

This is TRUE.  I think we can all agree that the sign John saw had definite symbolic and prophetic meaning - that is not in dispute. However, the text itself makes abundantly clear that this is more than just a parable: "A great sign appeared in heaven..." (Revelation 12:1).

I'm not saying the rapture will occur in September 2017, but I am saying that the heavenly sign John saw in Revelation 12 appears to be happening before our very eyes with whatever implications that brings and I believe Jesus will be calling us home very, very soon.


The rapture will occur on September 23rd, 2017.

This is either TRUE or FALSE.  That might sound like a cop-out answer, but the truth of the matter is, it either will or it won't.  It isn't a possibility, it's either for-sure or for-sure-not.  Whatever God has planned will happen and I'm committed to not date setting.  As a fallen human being, I'm the one prone to intellectual deficiencies and lack of understanding, but God's Word is true and will stand the test of time.

[Telepathic Intruder]

Bogus. Astrology is not supported in the Bible.

[BenLurkin]

May be a “sign” but it’s not a great one.

In fact, most people won’t even notice it.

A “great sign” however would be impossible for anyone to miss.

[humblegunner]

Yeah.. I always look to “Gary” for spiritual stuff.

[Paved Paradise]

It does seem odd that the website hosting this article only lists the last name of one of the contributors. I’m not saying the information is necessarily bogus, but it’s hard to take people seriously when they won’t even own up to their own names.

[amessenger4god]

Copied directly from the article under “Claims And Critiques”:

Looking for “signs” in the sky is astrology.

This is FALSE. Astrology is an idolatrous and occultic practice that often involves the deification of stars, planets, and moons. Astrologers often teach that these heavenly bodies control life on earth. To the contrary, the search for biblical signs in the heavens recognizes that it is the Creator God who made all things and set everything into motion in a preordained pattern. The heavenly bodies themselves have no power over our lives and we do not worship them.

The Bible says explicitly that there will be signs in the sky preceding the return of Christ (Matthew 24:30, Luke 21:11, Luke 21:25, Revelation 12:1-3). The Bible also says that the sun, moon, and stars were created for three reasons: 1. To separate day from night, 2. To give light to the earth, and 3. To indicate days, years, seasons, and signs (Genesis 1:14-15). Prophetic language frequently makes mention of lunar and solar eclipses (Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20, Revelation 6:12) and God often focuses our attention on the stars (Genesis, 15:5, Isaiah 40:26, Job 38:31, Amos 5:8, Psalm 19:1).

Interestingly, the magi from the east were able to find the baby Jesus by following prophetic descriptions found in Numbers 24:17 and Genesis 49:9-10. They were able to identify the constellation Leo (”The Lion”) with the tribe of Judah and followed the Star of Bethlehem as it moved west and came to rest over Bethlehem.

[amessenger4god]

“Yeah.. I always look to “Gary” for spiritual stuff.”

And I’ll always be waiting for “humblegunner” to be stalking me on FreeRepublic. Nothing new under the sun.

[castlegreyskull]

The wise men followed the Star of Bethlehem. So it isn’t unthinkable that stars will be used in future events.

[Mercat]

September 24. My brother’s birthday. The 27th is my mother’s. Both have passed.

[humblegunner]

And I’ll always be waiting for “humblegunner” to be stalking me on FreeRepublic.

Well now, I don't think that two posts in a year rises to the level of stalking.

If you would like to see the difference please let me know.

I probably need to step up my game and you are as good a place as any.

[Excellence]

I’m going to have a hellofa birthday.

[Mamzelle]

Here’s how I read the passage...the woman is the apostate Israel being redeemed prior to the White Throne judgement. The child is actually 144,000 pure sons of Israel, 12k from each tribe.

[Telepathic Intruder]

"and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years" (Genesis 1:14)

They're not signs of spiritual events.

[pjd]

The article states, “The Hebrew and Greek words for “star” do not distinguish between stars as we know them today and planets.. ..planets were sometimes described in the ancient languages as “wandering”, but they were still called stars.”

I take issue with that statement because the Greeks referred to the planets, not as stars “wandering” (verb) but as “wanderers” (noun). They were distinct from stars. The word “planet” comes from the Greek word planatos, meaning wanderer.

Also, the illustration of Jupiter in the womb and then proceeding through the birth canal is backwards. Jupiter moves upward, toward the head, not downward. Also, it is on the left hip, not the womb.

furthermore, we do not know if the Great Red Spot existed at the time the original text was written. It was only first seen by Galileo.

[sportutegrl]

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap160711.html

If Jupiter is the King planet and represents Jesus. I found this that I think is interesting. If you go to the NASA Astronomy Picture of the Day for July 11, 2016, you will see a beautiful image of Jupiter with stripes, red hole, and a crown. The King is Crowned, and it is beautiful.

[Zuriel]

**Bogus. Astrology is not supported in the Bible.**

“Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.” Jeremiah 10:2-5

Yessiree folks, the Lord ties people looking at the stars, and seeing them stop moving north in the sky, with the winter solstice, and the people’s vain actions that follow.

Worshipping the stars is certainly wrong, but naming them is no more sinful than naming a mountain or a river. If man named Pleiades, Orion, Mazzaroth, or Arcturus “and his sons”, God didn’t shy away from mentioning them to Job. (Job 38:31,32)

Personally, I fail to see how some of these collections of stars even remotely resemble the outline of the objects assigned to them. But, I’m told they had drugs way back then too.

[Zuriel]

The two smaller white dots below the red dot are very round and remind me of headlights.

[Telepathic Intruder]

In fact the constellations are human constructs—any amateur astronomer can tell you this. They are important only for mapping the sky so that we can tell one part of it from another. Any other use is pure nonsense.

The Bible is very clear about not worshipping nature, but rather the God of nature. There is nothing to be found in using tools invented by pagans and occultists.

[delchiante]

quote-In fact the constellations are human constructs—any amateur astronomer can tell you this. They are important only for mapping the sky so that we can tell one part of it from another. Any other use is pure nonsense.

The Bible is very clear about not worshipping nature, but rather the God of nature. There is nothing to be found in using tools invented by pagans and occultists.

When Israel is to assemble for His Spring Feasts today, the ‘2 fish’ is over their head.

When Israel is to assemble for His Fall Feasts today, the ‘woman’ is over their head.

-for New testament readers, certainly 2 Fish or the phrase ‘fishers of men’ is a biblical theme.
-so is ‘the woman’ or the church/bride..

a couple thousand years ago, that wasn’t the case. the signs were different at His Feast times. Science can tell us that..

But those signs a couple thousand years ago had a ‘biblical theme’ to them too..an Old Testament theme..

The two that are coming next, at His Feasts, would be most interestng too. something about a man ‘carrying a jar of water’ (detailed in a couple of the gospels) and a Lion (detailed in the book of Revelation)

like the bible was placed in His sky before it was ever placed on parchment..just need to know when and where to look..

I wonder how many would see this kind of stuff and think the bible copied it from the pagans and occultists..instead of vice versa..

[Telepathic Intruder]

"a couple thousand years ago, that wasn’t the case. the signs were different at His Feast times. Science can tell us that..

In fact, no. The constellations take tens of thousands of years to change only slightly. Any amateur astronomer can tell you that. Jesus didn't tell us to look for signs in the stars, but signs of the times. Get your head straight.