John 6 focusing on the words spoken by Jesus {from the King James Version}

Biblegateway ^ | 85 AD | John

[imardmd1]

Answering this last post of yours, I see that you have taken a lot of your time and FR bandwidth to misinterpret bits of Scripture. Having set some of those errors aright, I see that it is profitless for me to continue dialogue until you answer this question, which is in two parts:

Does even one iota of The God's Substance reside in your soul and/or body; and if so, what is the basis of your confidence for it?

If not, there is no reason to go deeper into doctrine with you.

[ADSUM]

Your question: “Does even one iota of The God’s Substance reside in your soul and/or body; and if so, what is the basis of your confidence for it?”

Obviously, you must of missed this in the Bible: “For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. John 6: 55-56

Jesus us told us that we needed to eat and drink His Real presence of His Body and Blood for our salvation. Eating the Eucharist was followed by the Apostles and Catholics for 2000 years. Catholics do not follow man-mad protestant theory inspired by Satan.

Apparently protestants have not disproved the scientific evidence that independent scientists have proved that the consecrated host is truly heart muscle with AB blood type with white blood cells (that indicate that this is living flesh and blood).

Jesus does perform miracles even daily. May He do a miracle so that all will fully understand and accept that the Eucharist is His Real Body and Blood for all to worthily consume.

Why do you not believe?

When one truly believes in Jesus, we want to be as close as possible and have Him abide in us.

[Luircin]

First, it’s very crass to post an axe-grinding thread.

Second, trying to cite me in support of your church is nonsensical considering that you and your church condemn me to eternal damnation.

Third, I may think that they’re in error, but they receive the body and blood of Christ anyways because Christ has promised his presence in the Holy Supper.

Fourth, your church has abandoned the gospel of grace and that core heresy of yours splits me from you no matter how much is in common, and unites me with all other gospel-believing Christians, no matter our differences.

[rbmillerjr]

This is most clear by the Word of God. Your post below is stunningly obvious.

” Why don’t you read the Bible? The letter to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 10:16)

6 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?

and also 1 Cor 11:27-29

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

How clear can Paul get? “The bread IS a participation in the body of Christ” and “who eats the bread... will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord” This is not just mere bread and wine anymore. This is the body and blood of Christ.

Jesus clearly taught that in order for us to have eternal life we MUST “eat his flesh” - He repeats this 6 times - using the word “to chew” 4 times. This is not synmbolic “

[imardmd1]

And you forget what Jesus said to His Disciples less than a day before His soul and spirit departed from His utterly dead, dead, dead body:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you . . . Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come" (Jn. 16:7,13 AV)

Since ten days before the Pentecost of 1988 years ago, Jesus has departed and has remained wholly in Heaven as a real human Incarnation of God, and no part of Him has yet traveled back into the temporal realm, particularly not to participate in the illogical gospel of salvation by persistent unremitting human-authorized incantation and ingestion of bread and intoxicant, but only those substances that your unspiritual misinterpretation insists on to have passed through the hands of a Catholic clergyman.

In fact, verse 13 shows that those humans who have undergone the Pentecostal transformation of a second birth experience into the Heavenly spiritual realm--through faith alone in the Person, Words, and Works of the Jesus of the Bible alone, by the Father's fee Graciousness alone, to Their Glory alone--and are now eternally redeemed, justified, and made Saints every one, with the Holy Ghost permanently abiding in them since the instant of new birth, giving everlasting Absolute Life forever, are the ones to whom the Indwelling Holy Ghost has even from the day of Pentecost indoctrinated each Christ-servant and Friend into the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, since each one is invisibly and forever an ever-present citizen of the Kingdom of God, which is not of this Earth, but exists in and about the Person of its King, te Prince of Peace, Jesus of Nazareth, in Heaven.

ADSUM, are you a Blood-purchased bond-slave of the Great Shepherd and Messiah Jesus? Are you in possession of a full and complete irrevocable pardon from The Father, having the Righteousness of His Begotten Son permanently imputed to you?

If not, then you remain as you were at birth, soaked with the stain of original sin in every chromosome, a wretched depraved soulish hell-bound servant of the god of this world, who is the prince of the power of the air, and have his spirit in you instructing you as his child the ways of disobedience to The Almighty and His Son.

And in that state one cannot help but misinterpret the Words of The God, as the serpent did to Eve, that she might believe in herself as a god, or in some non-existent imaginary power to deliver herself from sin.

There are many, and these days very many, sin-seekers in whom the overspreading of iniquity has burned away longing for The Father's gracious love, corrupted as Eve was from the simplicity of salvation by faith alone in Christ alone, and instead: (1) preaching a christ of a similar kind, yet another and not the same Christ of Paul's narrative; (2) having received another spirit of a different kind, not the Holy Ghost that was received by Corinthian regenerated believers; and (3) propagating another gospel than the one heralded by Paul and John (see 2 Cor. 11:3-4).

Are you one of these false prophets (Jude 4), who have not been born again as a human whose sin and sinfulness have been eradicated before the Father through irreversible committed trust alone in His Lamb alone, Who Alone by faith has flushed away one's sins and the penalty for them by His Blood alone? One of those in whom the Spirit of God is not a permanent resident as a constant Comforter and Teacher of the same kind as Friend Jesus? One destined for interminable agony in the Lake of Fire?

Examine yourself (2 Cor. 13:5). It is not your duty to examine me, is it?

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (1 Jn. 1:9-10 AV).

By the Holy Spirit's conviction, and faith-born acknowledgement of it; no bread or grapejuice needed or desired in this durable example of God's grace. apart from any human deed.

Your confidence in bread and wine as yet another of innumerable sacrifices is entirely misplaced. The communal breaking of bread in His Name is a memorial to show forth His Death until He returns, but like water-immersion of the newly-born believer, it is a singular rite of remembrance of Him and identification with Him that Hecommanded to be publicly observed regularly by each local assembly, without any human-invented mumbo-jumbo that would confuse the unsaved public and detract from the plain scriptural but unmagical significance.

To impose unwarranted supersitious rituals with mysterious initiations are wholly abomination to the simplicity of the saving Gospel message.

[MHGinTN]

Amen

[ADSUM]

Your comment: “Your confidence in bread and wine as yet another of innumerable sacrifices is entirely misplaced.”

My confidence and belief is in the words of Jesus Christ. He is the Truth made flesh. Jesus told us to eat and drink His Body and Blood. And I do as often as I can. Christ abides in me and I in Him.

Your comment: “Examine yourself (2 Cor. 13:5). It is not your duty to examine me, is it? “

I have not judged you, as that is God’s role at your death.

However if you read Luke 17:3-4 “if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him” I am questioning your rejection of the words of Jesus. I am providing you with the words of Jesus, which are the truth. Some are following the words and promises of the devil that is contrary to what Jesus taught.

Perhaps you forget the words of Jesus in Matthew 28: 19-20:
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of The Father and of the Son and of the Holy spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you and behold, I am with you, to the close of the age.”

Your comment: “Since ten days before the Pentecost of 1988 years ago, Jesus has departed and has remained wholly in Heaven as a real human Incarnation of God, and no part of Him has yet traveled back into the temporal realm, particularly not to participate in the illogical gospel of salvation by persistent unremitting human-authorized incantation and ingestion of bread and intoxicant, but only those substances that your unspiritual misinterpretation insists on to have passed through the hands of a Catholic clergyman. “

So how do you know? You offer no proof. Just your personal opinion. You ignore that Jesus appeared to St. Faustina and she did God’s will to bring us HIS DIVINE MERCY message.

Your may believe that “once saved, always saved. This is not Biblical nor was it taught by Jesus.

Your comment: If not, then you remain as you were at birth, soaked with the stain of original sin in every chromosome, a wretched depraved soulish hell-bound servant of the god of this world, who is the prince of the power of the air, and have his spirit in you instructing you as his child the ways of disobedience to The Almighty and His Son.

Yes, I was baptized as an infant to remove all sins including original sin. I have gone to the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession) to a Catholic priest over the years for absolution of my sins. As St Paul told us I expect to be judged by Jesus on my death with”fear and trembling” and ask for His Mercy. I believe that few will see the Lord as the gate is narrow and too many are following their opinions and not God’s Truth.

Concerning false teachers in Jude and the warning from Jesus in Mathew 7:15, there are certainly a few in the Catholic Church and hopefully they will be exposed; but there are many more from the heresies and their followers. The Catholic Church has been true to the teachings of Jesus, with the exceptions of a few beginning with Judas Iscariot.

Have you been validly baptized?

[Luircin]

Do they get the body and blood of Christ even if they don’t believe they’re getting it?

[Luircin]

Have you?

Considering that you think that baptism only washes away SOME sin, I would have to guess not.

[af_vet_1981]

I understand it this way: Jews who do not believe in Jesus as Messiah can read Isaiah 52/53, but they do not see Jesus in it. My heart was pricked, my eyes were opened in Isaiah; I saw him. One cannot make another see; it has to come from the Father.

Here, all the debaters acknowledge him in Isaiah, so we share that foundation.

[boatbums]

At least in that they believe Jesus’s words. you don’t believe Jesus when He says “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats[s] my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” Instead you persist in being one of the disciples that abandon Christ for Christ teaching that , “Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.

LOL! Firstly...you don't have a clue what I believe or don't believe. Unlike you, I do believe that it is by FAITH/believing that we eat and drink Jesus because that's exactly what He said:

Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” 30So they asked Him, “What sign then will You perform, so that we may see it and believe You? What will You do? 31Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” 32Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34“Sir,” they said, “give us this bread at all times.” 35Jesus answered, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to Me will never hunger, and whoever believes in Me will never thirst. 36But as I stated, you have seen Me and still you do not believe. 37Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. 39And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Secondly...you condemn the Lutherans and every other Christian faith tradition that differs from the Roman Catholic elitist claims that ONLY the Catholic priest can "properly confect" the elements of the Lord's Supper and administer them in order to make expiation (covering) for sin. Do you even realize that this is an accursed gospel? Do you even know that the blood of Jesus Christ makes PROPITIATION for our sins which means they have been taken away? We come to Christ through faith, we believe in Him and the grace of God saves us for eternity.

[Elsie]

Since ten days before the Pentecost of 1988 years ago, Jesus has departed and has remained wholly in Heaven as a real human Incarnation of God, and no part of Him has yet traveled back into the temporal realm,...

You make Mormon kitties cry.

[Elsie]

Yes, I was baptized as an infant to remove all sins including original sin.

Did it work?

[boatbums]

First, it’s very crass to post an axe-grinding thread.

I think it's something they keep in their back pocket so whenever they get bored and want to stir the pot, they bring out the "Eucharist" card. What more can be said than what we have already posted for the past 10 years?! Maybe we should ignore 'em next time?

[Elsie]

Maybe we should ignore 'em next time?

But covid has us trapped in our homes!

---

Surely there is some SCIENTIFIC way to PROVE that those who BELIEVE know that the 'Eucharist' is REALLY Christ's body and blood are some how in better shape that those who do not.

[Elsie]

Have you been validly baptized?

If it wasn't done here...

[MHGinTN]

Have you seen even one try to tell from which Jesus they consume the flesh of” is it the flesh of the alive on the cross Jesus? Is it the flesh of the dead on the cross Jesus? Is it the flesh of the just fresh from the tomb Jesus? It cannot be from the In Heaven Jesus and we have shown them why, but not one of these Roman apologists will try to even guess which flesh their priests’ incantations transmogrify for them! And drink the blood? ... Then what did Jesus take to the Mercy Seat on our behalf? The Romans are drinking that blood, that Holy blood, by the incantations of pedophile priests? But when I corner them with that question they have a broken record response which their father of lies has fed to them, to divert their minds from the truth he has twisted to fit his blasphemies.

[boatbums]

It does seem curious that they won't/can't because whichever one they choose brings its own share of issues. If it is Jesus' pre-glorified flesh and blood, then there wouldn't be enough of it to give to the whole world as Athanasius (296-373) who contended the elements of the Eucharist are to be understood spiritually, not physically:

“[W]hat He says is not fleshly but spiritual. For how many would the body suffice for eating, that it should become the food for the whole world? But for this reason He made mention of the ascension of the Son of Man into heaven, in order that He might draw them away from the bodily notion, and that from henceforth they might learn that the aforesaid flesh was heavenly eating from above and spiritual food given by Him.” (Festal Letter, 4.19)

Then we have Augustine:

Augustine (354–430), also, clarified that the Lord’s Table was to be understood in spiritual terms: “Understand spiritually what I said; you are not to eat this body which you see; nor to drink that blood which they who will crucify me shall pour forth. . . . Although it is needful that this be visibly celebrated, yet it must be spiritually understood” (Exposition of the Psalms, 99.8).

He also explained the eucharistic elements as symbols. Speaking of Christ, Augustine noted: “He committed and delivered to His disciples the figure [or symbol] of His Body and Blood.” (Exposition of the Psalms, 3.1).

And in another place, quoting the Lord Jesus, Augustine further explained: “‘Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,’ says Christ, ‘and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.’ This seems to enjoin a crime or a vice; it is therefore a figure [or symbol], enjoining that we should have a share in the sufferings of our Lord, and that we should retain a sweet and profitable memory of the fact that His flesh was wounded and crucified for us (On Christian Doctrine, 3.16.24).(more HERE)

But if it IS Christ's glorified body that they are eating, like you said there is no blood to drink since the blood was offered upon the heavenly Mercy Seat to make atonement for the sins of the world. It's pretty clear that Jesus meant the bread and wine were symbols for His body and blood by which we partake together with the Body of Christ (His church) in remembrance as a profession of our faith in Him. Together we offer to God the sacrifice of praise. It is by the grace of God through faith/believing that we are saved - and NOT through the physical eating of a piece of bread or a sip of wine. Christ died once for all. His sacrifice doesn't need to be repeated.

[Elsie]

I wonder WHY?

---

John 20:17-18 KJV

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

---

We know His body had wounds on it at this time but...

was all of His blood gone?
or
was blood still able to leak out?
or
had He started to heal?

So many unknowns here.

[Elsie]

HE is known to have been naked on the cross (though artists tend to put a cloth on Him); so where'd the clothes come from?