Jesus’ deeds and words are clear

1. God will feed the multitudes
2. I am God - I can walk on water
3. Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life,[o] which the Son of Man will give you
4. This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent
5. my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
6. I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger,
7. I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
8. unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats[s] my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

===== +++ =======

He is crystal clear - and He emphasizes that this is not an allegory, but repeats thrice that this is what you are to do - eat of His Body and drink of His blood

I’ve done a similar thing before with John 6, but since Jesus is having a conversation, and not preaching a sermon, both what He says and what is said to Him should be included.

This is beginning from John 6:

The people who followed Jesus to Capernaum after He fed the multitude: Rabbi, when camest thou hither?

Jesus: Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

The people: What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus: This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The people: What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

Jesus: Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

The people: Lord, evermore give us this bread.

Jesus: I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.)

The people: Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

Jesus: Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

The people: How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

Jesus: Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Many of his disciples: This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

Jesus to his disciples: Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not.
(For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.) Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

(From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.)

Jesus to the twelve: Will ye also go away?

Simon Peter: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Jesus: Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

(He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.) -End of chapter-

Here are two more things about John 6 to consider:

- It emphasizes something extremely important that the entire book of John, and also the Gospels themselves, emphasize: the sin of unbelief.

- What’s more, the whole Bible also emphasizes the sin of unbelief. Instead of rather entering immediately into the Promised Land after being delivered from Egypt,
the Israelites were forced to wander for 40 years in the wilderness, until the entire adult generation except for Joshua and Caleb had died out, due to their unbelief. The New Testament book of Hebrews discusses that quite a bit.

Jesus said we should have faith like small children. That statement is so comforting and is proof his burden is light.

Why then doesn’t everyone believe?
Jesus said because the Father must draw them.

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

Sin is the barrier, it is the tool of the evil one to keep us from being drawn.

Jesus implored folks to cast off their own desires and to follow him.

It takes a physical and conscience effort, but when done the spirit enters and helps.

It is beautiful.

“He emphasizes that this is not an allegory, but repeats thrice that this is what you are to do - eat of His Body and drink of His blood.”

once he ascended that became impossible. He is certainly speaking spiritually - as he specifically says in verse 63. “ It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

Jesus’ deeds and words are clear . . . He is crystal clear - and He emphasizes that this is not an allegory, but repeats thrice that this is what you are to do - eat of His Body and drink of His blood

At the time and place of Jesus' dealing with the human parasites who were traipsing after Jesus to obtain the material benefits that He was miraculously dispensing, Jesus was clear to the Twelve, His chosen disciples, for whom His earthly residence was largely dedicated to their training in theology and evangelism. A part of that training was showing them the nature of the use of figurative language in parables, so that they could understand and apply them. However, what he was saying in this pericope was not clear to the unspiritual adherents, as it never has been to those not possessing the gift of spiritual discernment, as it very obviously is not to you.

And because of this, you unadvisedly make the above claim, not even distinguishing what kind of speech it is that Jesus was using in John 6 regarding Himself, His Body, and His Blood. He was speaking allegorically, and this literary device employed metaphorical examples, ones He often used in communicating spiritual Truths. It could not have been plain literal, but you seem not to know how to differentiate between allegory and metaphor, a significant error in scriptural interpretation. Here's what "BECOME A WRITER TODAY: (click Here) concisely says about this issue:

Allegory Vs Metaphor: What’s The Difference?

Many writers use the metaphor and allegory regularly but often without knowledge of what the devices are and how they work. Skilled writers know the differences and how to wield each one well.
Allegories are not the same as symbolism, because allegories are complete narratives. Symbolism uses one object (symbol) to stand for another within a narrative, but does not extend through the entire narrative. While allegories sometimes use symbolism, they are not the same thing.
In some ways, allegories are extended metaphors. They compare two unrelated things in a story, however, the objects are not really what they appear to be.

However one evaluates the content of John 6, it is inescapable that it is filled with metaphorical figurative-literal language, which Jesus had taught His disciples to interpret as such, beginning in October (Heshvan) of A. D. 31, toward the end of their second year of discipleship with Him. By this time they had become spiritually mature enough to be able to contemplate the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, which had been withheld even from yhe prophets of the Old Testament, and since from anyone not born from above.

Because of that, your maturity in the use of language does not permit you to be an authoritative commentator on the Bible, whatever your schooling.In another passage, Jesus pinpoints your standing as a commentator on His Word. In the first nine verses of this passage, Matthew 13:1-23, Jesus gave the gathered crowd (including His disciples) a brief parable about how more disciples were to be made. At that moment, none of the hearers grasped the significance because the lesson was couched in figurative-literal language. But a bit later He explained the meaning to His inner circle of personally chosen students:

¹⁰And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? ¹¹He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

¹²For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

¹³Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. ¹⁴And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: ¹⁵For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

¹⁶But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. ¹⁷For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. ¹⁸Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

Thus, this was a parable, for Jesus said It was. And years later, when formulating their reports of Jesus' instruction on this day, Matthew and Mark wrote in their Gospels a very important overall feature of Jesus' uniform oral teaching method as follows:

"All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:" (Mt. 13:34 AV; 5o AD).

"But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples" (Mk. 4:34 AV; ~65 AD).

So when the commentators on scripture say of John's Gospel that there are no parables in it, they are and must be wrong, for Blessed John would not have made Matthew's Gospel (written four decades before) and Mark's/Peter's Gospel (written three decades before) fabrics of lies. When John wrote his more spiritual gospel it included mre aspects of the principles His Master was teaching them. Chapter 6, a report of Jesus encounter with a multitude, an event six months after the chronology of Matthew 13, was most certainly understood by the Twelve as filled with metaphorical inference not understood by the unspiritual material-minded soulish masses that He was addressing. And doubtless Jesus was preparing His intimate circle for the event ending His last meal on earth in His Own flsh-and-blood, incarnate body, the tokens of which at that moment could not possibly been literally of His Own Substance in either the natural, observable sense; but only in the figurative sense.

What I see in all of this, Cronos, is that you do not perceive or understand or believe what the Holy Scriptures convey in these passages, likely never having been born from above, and thus unable to discern spiritual truths even when they are displayed before you and rightly interpreted for you.

Am I wrong? Will another spiritually mature reader of this response say that I am wrong in this? Can you say that you have been spiritually reborn through faith alone in Jesus The Messiah alone, by the grace of God His Father alone?

If not, I believe that you are not fit to comment on matters you do not yet understand. And why?

The basis for my opinion is found in 1 Corinthians 2:12-15 (AV):

¹²Now we^{the authors of this epistle, spiritual men of God} have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. ¹³Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. ¹⁴But the natural^{ψυχικός=psuchicos, soulish} man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. ¹⁵But he^{a spiritually reborn human} that is spiritual^{πνευματικός=pneumatikos, non-carnal, regenerate} judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. ¹⁶For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he^{the spiritual human} may instruct him^{the soulish, (il)logical man}? But we^{the authors of this epistle and all regenerate humans like them} have the mind of Christ.

And who is it that has the mind of The Christ?

"⁵Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: ⁶Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ⁷But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: ⁸And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross" (Php. 2:5-8 AV).

Are you, Cronos, humble enough that you can bow before the Word of God that tells of the magnificent servant mind of the Messiah, and through faith alone be willing to have Him as your master, and not some council of fallible, wrong-headed, religionists?

Do not forget that the truly miracle-generated bread (Jn. 6:26-27) or the miracle-generated “wine” (= non-alcoholic grape juice)(Jn. 2:7-8) was neither really Jesus’ Flesh nor Jesus’ Blood, and saved no one that ate of it; indeed, did not seem to even promote their spirituallty, at most only their temporal body and soul.

In agreement placemarker.

Amen, blessed are you because you see with spiritual eyes. God NEVER contradicts Himself and NOTHING takes Him by surprise..

Jesus was speaking figuratively.

he that eateth me, even he shall live by me

Hey Thomas!

When you stick yer fingers into my wounds; you really should LICK the blood off of them instead of washing your hands later.

Direct question: The people: What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Direct answer: Jesus: This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

When does the seed of God begin abiding in the human spirit?

Ah, Doubting Elsie

Jesus said

[26] And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you. [27] Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing. [28] Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God. [29] Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed. [30] Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book.

He made it crystal clear that we are to believe His words -

Jesus’ deeds and words are clear

1. God will feed the multitudes
2. I am God - I can walk on water
3. Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life,[o] which the Son of Man will give you
4. This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent
5. my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
6. I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger,
7. I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
8. unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats[s] my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

===== +++ =======

He is crystal clear - and He emphasizes that this is not an allegory, but repeats thrice that this is what you are to do - eat of His Body and drink of His blood

It does emphasize the sin of unbelief or loss of belief - and no more so than not believing what Jesus repeats -

Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven....I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger;
I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever:
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. .

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

Emphasized three times the disbelief of doubting Elsie in Christ

Once He ascended that continued to be a possibility. He is definitely NOT speaking purely spiritually - read verse 63 and 64 [63] If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? [64] It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.

Christ by mentioning his ascension, by this instance of his power and divinity, would confirm the truth of what he had before asserted; and at the same time correct their gross apprehension of eating his flesh, and drinking his blood, in a vulgar and carnal manner, by letting them know he should take his whole body living with him to heaven; and consequently not suffer it to be as they supposed, divided, mangled, and consumed upon earth.

And in verse 64 He emphasizes that the flesh of Christ is the living flesh -- Dead flesh separated from the spirit, in the gross manner they supposed they were to eat his flesh, would profit nothing

Note that Jesus literally was crucified -- a literal explanation in the same speech -- that was not figurative but literal. Similarly the eating of His both is literal not figurative.

Are you, imardmd1, humble enough that you can bow before the Word of God, Jesus who tells of what you should do and not some council of fallible, wrong-headed, religionists?

Jesus taught that in order for us to have eternal life we must eat his flesh

He repeats this phrase or its variations six times.

He makes it graphically clear that the flesh is literal as the body on the Cross was literal

Many disciples left Jesus because they refused to believe Jesus that this was His literal flesh. you, imadrmd1 would be one of those disciples. you are among those who reject Jesus, the Word of God's very words

For the first 1500 years of Christianity, there were no exceptions to this widespread belief of the Apostles and the early Church in the Real Presence.

as our Lutheran brethren say From the Lutheran LCMS.org website

All three accounts of the institution of the Lord's Supper in the Gospels (Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:14-23) explicitly state that Jesus took BREAD, blessed it, broke it, and gave it to his disciples saying, "Take, eat; this [i.e., this BREAD, which I have just blessed and broken and am now giving to you] is my body." Jesus uses similar language in referring to "the cup" (of wine) as "his blood."...
Perhaps the most explicit expression of this truth, however, is found in 1 Cor. 10:16-17, where Paul writes: "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread."
Paul clearly says here that we all "partake" of "BREAD" when we receive the Lord's Supper--even as we also partake of and "participate in" the true body of Christ. And he says that we all "partake" of the wine (the cup), even as we also partake of the true blood of Christ.
Similarly, in 1 Cor. 11:26, Paul says: "For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes." Paul expressly states here ........................that those who eat this bread and drink this cup are also partaking of the true body and blood of Christ.
So "real" is this participation in Christ's body and blood, in fact, that (according to Paul) those who partake of the bread and wine "in an unworthy manner" are actually guilty of "profaning the body and blood of the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:27). (Partaking of the Lord's Supper "in a worthy manner," of course, is not something that we "do" or "accomplish" on the basis of our "personal holiness" or "good works." It means receiving God's free and gracious gifts of life and forgiveness offered in the Lord's Supper in true repentance produced by the work of the Spirit through God's Law and in true faith in Christ and his promises produced by God's Spirit through the Gospel).

"grape juice"? Have you any inkling how this is impossible due to fermentation?

You can drink grape juice only within a couple of weeks of the fall harvest season.

the only kind of wine was alcoholic wine. The Greek word, oinos, or wine, means wine. The Greeks had another word for fruit or grape juice, which was glukos.

There is no word for non-alcoholic wine in the New Testament. The word oino means fermented grape juice as there was no process for keeping any juice for more than three days without it fermenting. Teetotaling is simply not a part of the early New Testament belief.

Before refrigeration and pasteurization in the 1800s, they had no way to preserve grape juice past the harvest season of fresh grapes. The people made wine from the grape juice as a way to preserve it. The raw grape juice would ferment into wine if left on its own, but would probably end up as vinegar. (Actually most of the wine that wasn’t consumed with in a month or so likely ended up as vinegar.)

Two events in the Gospels prove that Jesus drank wine.

The first is the wedding at Canna - the first miracle when he turned water into wine because the feast’s steward told Mary that he was running out of wine. So She turned to Her Son and said, “Wine.” He said, “Okay, Mom,” ordered the empty jugs and soon there was more wine. The Steward tasted it and said, “We put out the good stuff first and then when the guests are a bit tipsy, we serve the rot gut. But You have brought out the best for later. Wow.”

This really doesn’t prove that He drank what he produced - but!
In the second instance, Jesus is talking to a crowd about Himself and John the Baptist and He complains: “You guys make fun of John because he eats locusts and honey but complain that I go to parties and pig out and drink lots of wine.”

Now for those who read the KJV, the actual AME is “…glutton and winesop…” Guess what “winesop” translate into: drunkard.

Your grape juice at your cult does rejects Jesus' teachings, so naturally also rejects history, right?

Are you, imardmd1, humble enough that you can bow before the Word of God, Jesus Christ who tells us to eat of His body, or will you follow your council of fallible, wrong-headed, religionists?

When does the seed of God begin abiding in the human spirit?

Well, the Book says...

1 John 3:9
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

...so it appears to me that AFTER one is BORN AGAIN fulfills the 'when' part.

Ah, Blind Cronos:

You post the Scriptures but absolutely use Rome's teachings to 'understand' them.

Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.

HE did NOT say, "My back is a MESS! There ought to be a little chunk of meat hanging loose you can nibble on. It ain't gonna get any better later when Rome comes up with its story."