Posted on 07/08/2021 3:45:21 PM PDT by annalex
How do we know the carbon we are measuring was accumulated by the organism, vs. being present from the time matter came into being?
Exactly. It is unimportant trivia. Read the Gospels. Follow the Gospels. Repent. Pray. Have faith.
The fabric is linen, which comes from flax plants. C-14 dating would essentially be dating when the flax plants were harvested (that is, killed). That’s when they would have stopped absorbing C-14 containing CO2 from the air.
Amen
It might be Jesus’, people have issues with the samples and the dating.
It might not be Jesus’,
The end result is it has nothing to do with my faith in Jesus.
And Paul said it best.
ping
The carbon dating was done on a portion of the shroud that had been charred in a, I think, 14th century fire.
The Romans were master executioners. When they crucified someone they ensured they were dead before they were removed from the cross. Those who were found still breathing after so many agonizing hours and sometimes days had their legs broken prior to being taken down so they could no longer lift themselves up to breathe (see John 19:31-34). It was a cruel and horrendous method. The Bible says that they did not break Jesus' legs because He was already dead. A spear thrust into His side resulted in water and blood pouring out - a sign that they had ruptured His pericardial sack and He was confirmed dead.
Also, Jesus told His disciples many times that He would die and then be raised from the dead after three days. I've heard the skeptic opinions about Jesus possibly not dying but reviving once he was placed into the cool, dark tomb. They don't realize that He endured terrible torture before He was nailed to the cross and lost a lot of blood . Those who removed Him and washed Him prior to placing Him in the tomb also would not have wrapped Him in burial cloths had He still been breathing. I've read that burial practices involved a weighty amount of spices and linen cloths. Not at all conducive to recovering from severe bleeding, beatings, flesh-tearing whipping, a crown of thorns dug into His head, suspension from a tall crossbeam using ropes and large iron nails driven into both the wrist and foot joints. Like I said - an unbelievably cruel way of killing people.
I have forgotten where I read about how they translated the image from the shroud into a picture. They treated the image like an electronic flat file and printed it into an 3d image. The final image was a stereotypical thin Jewish guy. If he went into a store, no one would notice him.
Which begs the question: If someone was faking it 500+ years ago, who would have thought to do it in a manner that would require a computer to reassemble it.
The most important thing is His Resurrection; it’s irrefutable evidence that He is God.
“2nd Jesus had his facial hair plunked.”
That was only one of the tortures and indignities inflicted on Jesus. The Beard plucking does not need to be that the entire beard was plucked out but that patches were pulled for pain and the humiliation effect to a Jewish man to have the effect desired. . . nor did they have the time to do a thorough job of beard plucking. It was a casual thing the soldiers would do while taunting him.
"3rd the nails were driven into the wrist."
What is seen on the Shroud wrist wounds is actually anatomically and forensically correct. Multiple studies using actual human bodies have demonstrated that nailing a Crucifixion victim through the center of the palm as most Christian art depicts Jesus’ nailing NG would fail as there is nothing there to prevent the flesh of the palm between the bones from tearing under the weight and flexing of the movement over even a short period of time and the victim falling from the cross. However, at the base of the palm, still on the hand, is an easily located indentation, about ¾" to 1" toward the wrist from the center of the palm, where a nail can be driven that opens a space in the bones of the wrist (the Space of Destót). The wrist bones move enough to allow the nail to pass through without breaking any, but the median nerve is either severed or damage, causing the thumb to contract into the palmar area, not to mention severe nerve pain. The naturally derived exit wound is exactly where it is shown on the back of the wrist. These wrist bones easily can hold a struggling human victim without giving way, while the soft tissues between the carpal bones of the palm cannot. Any experienced Crucifixion executioner would know exactly where to nail a Crucifixion victim.
"4th Jesus was bound in strips of linen and his face was covered by a napkin(separate cloth)"
Actually, these are only mentioned in one of the Gospels, and the "strips" are a very late translation of the original Greek of that Gospel, using an obscure reference of the word "Othonia" used which was only found when the word was used as bandages in war stories. There were three more common uses of the same Greek word in Ancient Greek literature that would have served better. Translators misused Othonia as "bandages" and "strips of linen" because they were doing their English translations at the very same time as many Egyptian mummies were being brought to Europe wrapped in yards and yards of strips of linen. They assumed Jews buried their dead in similar grave clothes. They did not.
The Jews actually had a written tradition of how their dead were to be buried recorded in the Mishnah, and that tradition first of all required the body be interred before sundown of the day of death. The body is to be ritually washed, anointed, limbs tied to prevent flopping akimbo at wrists and ankles, knees, and the jaw tied shut (this was the face cloth "about" the face, under the chin, around the face and tied over the crown of the head), eyes closed with weights (potsherds or coins) on the eyelids. A shroud used to cover the body if it could be afforded, and aromatic herbs packed around the body. There is literally no time to wrap a body in yards of linen strips when the body had to be interred by sundown.
A 1st Century Jewish Cemetery in Jerusalem was unearthed in the mid-1980s and excavated where numerous skeletons were discovered. None were found entangled with remnants of linen strips, but two were covered with the remains of large linen shrouds. The archaeological, written, Greek original, and Jewish Mishnah record is clear… Jews did not wrap their dead in strips of linen as old English biblical translators erroneously claimed. The only strips used may have been used as binding to hold the limbs from flopping.
"These are mentioned in the Bible."
Another thing mentioned in the Gospels in the original Greek is that Joseph of Arimathea bought a fine Linen "Syndon"… which translates as a large cloth, a sheet, a shroud, or a sail… I.e. a really big piece of cloth. It does not say he bought yards and yards of linen strips.
SHROUD OF TURIN PING!
Thank you.
and large iron nails driven into both the wrist and foot joints.
Um, the Word of God says Jesus died on that cross and was buried. He did not swoon and the Roman soldier mistake a swoon for dead when he pierced the side and punctured the pericardium to relese water and blood. Your unbelief is directing your false reasoning.
Amen ... the True message is that ‘God with us’ died to pay my sin debt so God has put His Spirit in my before-dead spirit and I am now in His family.
Rather than nailed, which not have been a secure way to fix some one to a Roman crucifix Christ would most likely have been tied at the wrists.
i’ve tried soaking and pre-soaking but i still cannot get out these supernatural stains.
i’ll give you $50 for that shroud..RIP..it’s to prove a point. we’ll wash this half of the shroud in detergent alone, and this half in detergent plus blorox . to prove blorox is best at taking out those supernatural impressions.
I knew about the wrists, but not about the cloth/strips info. Great stuff!
The Shroud was left as a gift for us.
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