Dynamic Salvation

Lambert's Library ^ | 8/11/02 | Lambert Dolphin

[xzins]

So you believe a man can say "I'm a christian" and then live like hell, and that's just OK?

I don't think you believe that.

You can tell me til you're blue (red) in the face that that reprobate is one of the elect, but I'll say that his walk in darkness indicates he is not.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I will get in trouble with my Arminian friends for saying that the TRULY BELIEVING will not fall away and that the proof of that is that a true believer CAN return.

While welcoming any distinction between you and your Arminian friends, I agree, except that "...the proof of that is that a true believer WILL return."

[RnMomof7]

Here is the trouble Dan...They that cling to self salvation demand that their will is stronger than Gods grace..so now does God suddenly take that most precious free will away from them? Is God an Indian giver? Is God so insecure that He thinks they might change their minds AGAIN?

Ummmmmmmmmm a doctrinal problem

Now we believe our will was never truly free until we were saved..At least Wesley was consistant even if he was wrong:>) The calminians are the inconsistant ones...

[RnMomof7]

Storm coming??

[RnMomof7]

There have been long periods in my life where I have been off the path. Jesus always finds me, even when I am hiding. Hence I can still have the assurance of Salvation, knowing that when I am lost, he will call, and whenever he has called, I have returned to the fold.

PM that is not dumb luck..that is because you are an elect child of God..Jesus always goes looking for the stray sheep...

[RnMomof7]

If you are a child of God you are secure.

How do you know? Hows your fruit:>)

[drstevej]

Yes, looks like we'll get much more wind and rain than the last one. This afternoon I move all of the patio furniture indoors and diasassembled the trampoline, etc. to reduce projectile damage. We will probably get up to 10 inches of rain. I previous floods we have been dry but there are a lot of low lying areas of our city. Fortunately we are far enought inland that we will miss the brunt of what the coast gets.

Whether the power here will stay on is a toss-up, we have "third world power dependability at first world prices." Hope the net connection stays up too.

[RnMomof7]

I try my best to "follow His commandments"

Is it the desire of your heart to be holy?
Even Paul sinned..none of us will be "perfect" until we go home
that is why we need the righteousness of Christ..cause our own righteousness is filthy rags

Anything that is not of faith is a work..so doing a good deed to be seen by your neighbors or to "impress God" is a work...If you feel a prompting of God and follow it that is NOT a work it is obedience

[Dr. Eckleburg]

They that cling to self salvation demand that their will is stronger than God's grace.

There you go with that logic thing again.

FWIW, that one sentence is the essence of why I became a Calvinist.

[RnMomof7]

So you believe a man can say "I'm a christian" and then live like hell, and that's just OK?

Where did I say that ???

My point was there are plenty of tares..there are plenty of tares that said the sinners prayer
That is not the fault of the Pastor or the church or the one that taught them or led them.
God will save who he will save when He chooses to save them...
That is not my problem it is Gods business not mine..I just drop seeds and let God give the increase

[RnMomof7]

Will pray for you and yours

[xzins]

will/can

i'm referring to the hebrews 6 passage that says it's impossible for the fallen away to be renewed.

If one CAN be renewed, then that verse doesn't relate to them

[RnMomof7]

There you go with that logic thing again.

It came with my magic Calvinist decoder ring

[drstevej]

thanks.

[BibChr]

To me, Scripture is absolutely airtight on the issue. It teaches that no one genuinely saved can get un-saved — or it teaches nothing.

But logical problems abound as well. Here's another: "free will" is the important demigod now, right? It determines whether or not we get saved and stay saved, right? It would be a terrible thing to imply that someone could get saved, and then not have the option to opt out, right?

Then what about in Heaven? Can someone "opt out" after a century or two? If not, why not? If so, why do we never read of the possibility?

It's a position I'd not want to have to defend. Like amillennialism.

Dan

[RnMomof7]

Foundation

2602 katabole {kat-ab-ol-ay'}

from 2598; TDNT - 3:620,418; n f

AV - foundation 10, to conceive + 1519 1; 11

1) a throwing or laying down
1a) the injection or depositing of the virile semen in the womb
1b) of the seed of plants and animals
2) a founding (laying down a foundation)

[wai-ming]

If you feel a prompting of God and follow it that is NOT a work it is obedience.

Thanks for the insight. I will keep it in mind.

[P-Marlowe]

"the proof of that is that a true believer WILL return."

No. The proof is that Jesus will go get him and bring him back. Jesus is the Shepherd. We are merely wandering sheep.

Geez Doc, its almost as if you were speaking like a free WILLer there for a second. :-)

[Rambler]

Anything that is not of faith is a work..so doing a good deed to be seen by your neighbors or to "impress God" is a work...If you feel a prompting of God and follow it that is NOT a work it is obedience

Where is it that you get your definitions, and how do they fit with Scripture?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. (James 2:17)

[wai-ming]

Therefore, every time I say "believe" I shouldn't have to go on to explain that I mean "true belief" rather than shallow belief or false belief.

Problem is, most people are not astute enough to make the distinction between "true" believing and "false" believing.

Do you know of anyone who would readily admit to being a "false" believer? I know of no one. Most people like to think that they are "true" believers.

The point of the article is that perhaps those "shallow believers" will be surprised to find out on judgement day that they aren't "true" believers after all, and thus have no reward.

If the article is correct, Christians need to do a better job of getting the word out: "Shallow" belief will get you nowhere. "True" believers are the ones going to heaven.