Dynamic Salvation

Lambert's Library ^ | 8/11/02 | Lambert Dolphin

[P-Marlowe]

New Article From Lambert Dolphin

For General Discussion

[P-Marlowe]

If you've got any bump lists, use them.

New Lambert Dolphin article on the assurance of Salvation.

Thanks,

Marlowe

[RnMomof7]

Bumped will read in AM ( after I start my chili sauce:>)

[xzins]

It's a Marlowe ping - Marlowe wrote: If you've got any bump lists, use them. New Lambert Dolphin article on the assurance of Salvation. Thanks, Marlowe

[maestro]

Thanks!

(Romans 10:17)

Maranatha!

[xzins]

It is a VERY Arminian position. He nowhere says that loss of salvation is possible, but he everywhere leads to believe that we shouldn't be smug about being any "guaranteed perseverence" ticket that someone slipped in our pocket when we accepted Christ.

I'm in wholehearted agreement with Arminius and Dolphin. "Let he who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall."

There's plenty of reason to be wary of the doctrine of "eternal security."

[drstevej]

***There's plenty of reason to be wary of the doctrine of "eternal security."***

"and whom He justified, them He just might glorify if they hang in until the end!"

[good1]

I think the writer has missed the target audience of the warning passages in Hebrews. He seems to think they are Christians, but ones that need to put their faith into action.

I think the warning passages are directed to mostly Jewish people who are intellectually convinced that Christianity is true, but have not yet fully come to Christ in true saving faith. These are they who are in danger of falling back/away from Christ, with no subsequent opportunity for salvation.

We cannot save ourselves, and just so, we cannot keep ourselves saved--statically or dynamically.

[xzins]

The article says this:

those who through "easy believism" (static salvation) think they're justified, THEM he also glorified(?)

OR

those who though a true (dynamic)salvation He justified, them He also glorified

Which is your position, DrJ. A or B above or something else?

[kjam22]

I think the warning passages are directed to mostly Jewish people who are intellectually convinced that Christianity is true, but have not yet fully come to Christ in true saving faith. These are they who are in danger of falling back/away from Christ, with no subsequent opportunity for salvation.

VERY well stated.

The eternal security of the believer is an essential doctrine. If we believe that we can be saved through Jesus' redemption at the cross and then lost again, then what Christ did at the cross was no different, no truly greater, than the temple offerings of the priests throughout the old testament.

[Woodkirk]

Is there any way to clarify the meaning of this phrase: "the
foundation of the world". Does it mean "the creation of the earth"?
Or does it refer to a time later when civilization began to put
its marks on the face of the earth?

[xzins]

which verses are you concerned with?

[xzins]

If we believe that we can be saved through Jesus' redemption at the cross and then lost again

The parable of the sower indicates 2 seeds that definitely weren't true believers, 1 seed that might be a weak believer, and only one seed that definitely was a true believer.

That is the danger of "easy believism." Some seem to receive the word with joy, but then they fall away. If we've told THOSE peoplE that they're "eternally secure," then we've done them a disservice. Apparently, they're in desperate need of initial salvation. And here they are thinking they've got a fire insurance policy.

The best PRACTICAL sign of eternal security is eternal perseverence.

[BibChr]

We clearly agree about a lot when it comes to prophecy; but on this I couldn't agree less.

Your version of John 10:28 must read, "I give to them eternal life, and they shall never perish... unless, of course, they perish!"

My understanding of the Biblical teaching is not that Christ guarantees that we shall go to Heaven, no matter what we do. It is that Christ guarantees that He shall keep us so that we shall do nothing (and nothing will be done to us) to lose the life He gives us. The warnings in Hebrews and elsewhere are part of how He keeps us. We hold on, but by His power alone.

Were it left to us, not a one would reach Heaven. Thank God, it is not left to us.

Dan
Biblical Christianity web site

[sheltonmac]

Thanks for the post. I have long believed that the "Billy Graham" conversion experience can be very misleading, especially when you consider that most evangelicals believe in eternal security--"once saved, always saved." Many professing Christians believe that going forward at a Billy Graham crusade, Bible camp, or church service when they were five years old is enough, even when their lives do not reflect the change one would expect to see in a true convert. There are also many Christians who believe that in order to be saved, one MUST go through a "conversion experience" (usually an emotional one), though that isn't backed up with Scripture. Combine that with eternal security and you have a dangerous combination--people begin to assume that their eternal destiny is based solely on that emotional "conversion experience" they had way back when, and not on a true faith in Christ.

[drstevej]

I wrote an extended reply that got zapped when my net connection was dropped. I will not retype it but let me say, I opt for C. We have interacted enough that you should be able to anticiapte my answer.

[Woodkirk]

Any and every verse where it is used in the NT.

[xzins]

Read #13 and the article.

[xzins]

I'm thinking that you'd say:

1. That "easy believism" does not a Christian make.

2. No shrinkage for those who truly come to Christ. (Which I tend to agree with.)

[drstevej]

I'm thinking that you'd say:

1. That "easy believism" does not a Christian make.
<> Depends on how one defines "easy believism." I hold "impossible believism" apart from regeneration.

2. No shrinkage for those who truly come to Christ.
<> Absolutely.