Do babies go to Heaven?

[PFKEY]

Hope no one minds the vanity too much.

I was thinking last night about this idea and was trying to make it jive somewhat with the notion of predeterminationalism if that is the correct word.

Also was curious regarding what the various Christian denominations taught on this subject.

[RnMomof7]

Jael if you are saved because God looked forwad in time and saw who would accept his offer and he THEN elected them..they are saved by works..it is the most hidious doctrine that says God chose you because you chose Him. It is salvation by works

Jhn 15:16   Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

That God chose you based on your work is a lie from the pit of hell

1Jo 4:19We love him, because he first loved us.

[RnMomof7]

We will exchange some posts on Calvinism..but I have friends from Calvinism and Arminism...and who knows maybe I can have you think a bit on election:>)

[rwfromkansas]

From The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: "Also in <1 Pet 1:2> those to whom the apostle is writing are characterized as "elect according to the foreknowledge (prognosis) of God," where the election is based on the "foreknowledge." By the prognosis or foreknowledge, however, far more is meant than prescience. It has the idea of a purpose which determines the course of the Divine procedure. If it meant simply pre-vision of faith or love or any quality in the objects of the election, Peter would not only flatly contradict Paul ; but also such a rendering would conflict with the context of this passage, because the objects of election are chosen "unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of .... Christ," so that their new obedience and relation to Christ are determined by their election by God, which election springs from a "foreknowledge" which therefore cannot mean a mere prescience." Oops....I guess you can't fall back on foreknowledge either.

[Jael]

Jael if ALL (meaning all of every kind and sort) are drawn is God hapless and unable to do as He wills?

Why would God be hapless?

[Jael]

So the Bible lies?

I think the same problem is present for the Calninist as it is the Catholic. You guys say that the elect babies are saved without being born again. So do the others who insist that babies are born innocent, which I BTW, do not believe.

I think Pauls comments in Romans would speak to this. He says they that have no knowledge of law, have no sin imputed. :-)

[RnMomof7]

The God that spoke creation into existance gets what He wills Jael...unless of couse mans will is more powerful than Gods?

[Jael]

I am not a kook. I have the Word of God.

Matthew 24:35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

[RnMomof7]

I think Pauls comments in Romans would speak to this. He says they that have no knowledge of law, have no sin imputed. :-)

Is that what Paul says? ..Did you skip over chapter 1 and 2 ? Do you deny the fall?

[rwfromkansas]

BTw, some claim people are not predestined to salvation, only obedience etc. Well, if that were so, why does 1 Peter 1:2 include being chosen FOR SPRINKLING OF THE BLODD OF CHRIST? This is an obvious reference to salvation, a cleansing of the sinful nature.

[Jael]

All right, let's start over then. :-)

[xzins]

all babies go to heaven

that's a statement of faith.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

To: sinkspur You're just set yourself up. 67 posted on 12/31/2002 1:59 PM PST by lockeliberty

Nah. I expected Sink's response.

I'd have been rather more surprised if Sink had said that Psalm 58:3 was true.

[RnMomof7]

So if our goal as Parents is for our children to go to heaven is abortion a sacrament?

[Jael]

That isn't what I did. I don't need to do that. I am quite familar with the passages quotes.

All men.

[xzins]

no...abortion takes a life.

that's a statement of faith, too. therefore, it could never be a sacrament

[rwfromkansas]

Why do babies die?

[Jael]

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

This verse is Jesus speaking to the Apostles.

That God chose you based on your work is a lie from the pit of hell

It sure is. I park it right here where my salvation is concerned...
Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[rwfromkansas]

I notice no free-willers have commented on Ezekiel 36 and 37. Cat got your tongue?

[xzins]

biological laws set in motion by our Creator are means by which death takes place

[rwfromkansas]

Grace/salvation/faith are ALL the gift of God. You CAN'T choose to have faith and thus, you can't be given grace and be saved. Everything is given BY GOD....starting with the faith.