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Do babies go to Heaven?

Posted on 12/29/2002 9:23:52 PM PST by PFKEY

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To: RnMomof7
You are saying that God saves people who do not believe in His son. I have to reject that.

Acts 4:12  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

281 posted on 01/01/2003 8:19:01 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael
You are saying that God saves people who do not believe in His son. I have to reject that.

HUH? Where did I say that .

282 posted on 01/01/2003 8:20:13 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Conservative til I die; Jael
It's kind of funny watching two blind people trying to argue about who is more blind.

Trust me..Jael and I have a doctrinal difference on who can be saved....not how ..and we both know Rome has no clue and under her NO ONE gets saved..go play and dream of Purgatory

283 posted on 01/01/2003 8:22:35 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
But the problem is that believing that God gives all men the grace need to hear and come is not scriptual

No! It isn't a problem if you believe what God says!!!

John 12:32
 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
~Jesus

2 Thessalonians 1:8
 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

1 Peter 4:17
 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

284 posted on 01/01/2003 8:33:42 PM PST by Jael
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Let's start at the very point which your beliefs begin to diverge from the teachings of the Bible... the Fall of Man, in Genesis.

Let's start here. My beliefs don't diverge from Scripture regarding the fall of man.

Romans 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Let us look further at this chapter in regards to imputed sin.

13  (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Let's stay with the subject at hand, and my thesis. Paul says no sin is imputed without the law. He also says that without the law he never knew sin. Not that he didn't have a sin nature, or original sin. But until the law told him coveting was a sin, he didn't know.

My application of that is to the subject at hand, do babies who die go to Heaven.

I believe, based on what Paul says in Romans, and what David said in regards to his son, that they do. Sin isn't imputed to them.

Do I believe they are born without sin? No. I do not. No one is.
Now, start there.

285 posted on 01/01/2003 8:44:47 PM PST by Jael
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To: RnMomof7
God regenerates a baby who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ because somebody sprinkled water on it's head? Not possible.
286 posted on 01/01/2003 8:47:32 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael
Is that your only proof text?

Jesus also said the hearing was resticted to those HE chose

  Luk 8:8   And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.   
  Luk 8:9   And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
     Luk 8:10   And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

     Luk 10:21   In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

The ability to hear the Gospel is a gift...the ability top proclaim who Christ is is a gift...   Mat 16:15   He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?         Mat 16:17   And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Salvation is all of God..every bit of it..it is not mans will +Gods grace=salvation..

Salvation belongs to our God, that sits upon the Throne!

    Luk 10:22   All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him

Was the cross a crap shoot..did it save anyone?

287 posted on 01/01/2003 9:01:11 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Jael
I agree that is their doctrine not mine..that is why they believed that an unbaptised baby could not go to heaven
288 posted on 01/01/2003 9:02:57 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7; Jael; OrthodoxPresbyterian
I asked you a direct question for weeks, as I did the others. None had the wherewithal to answer it except OP. I might not always agree with him, but he's direct. I'm recommending to jael that when she has a real question that he's the go-to guy. DrSteve is 2nd place.
289 posted on 01/01/2003 9:04:54 PM PST by xzins
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To: Precisian
I'm not sure what a calvinian is, (calminian/calvarmian?) but sometimes I think I defy definition. I consider myself a biblical christian and all of it is the word of God. Period.
290 posted on 01/01/2003 9:07:07 PM PST by xzins
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To: xzins
Yada Yada yada..you have a typical passive agressive answer...
291 posted on 01/01/2003 9:09:17 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
I probably answered it on the wrong post, but when you said

"We agree that infant baptism is a dead work...one of the doctrianl differences between Catholics and non Catholics..THEY believe in Baptismal regeneration.......I believe that regeneration is a gift of God through the Holy Spirit.."


I took that to mean you think a baptism can make an unbelieving infant saved?
292 posted on 01/01/2003 9:10:29 PM PST by Jael
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To: RnMomof7
Luk 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

He is talking to his disciples here!!! And he is talking about a fulfilled prophecy regarding the Jews!!!!!

293 posted on 01/01/2003 9:10:38 PM PST by Jael
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To: xzins
I'm not sure what a calvinian is, (calminian/calvarmian?) but sometimes I think I defy definition. I consider myself a biblical christian and all of it is the word of God. Period.

Well if After 2 years of being on these threads you do not know your are deaf

294 posted on 01/01/2003 9:11:19 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: xzins
***DrSteve is 2nd place.***

I demand a recount!
295 posted on 01/01/2003 9:13:44 PM PST by drstevej
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To: Jael
Nope...never Baptism is a work that does not save ..it is a sign of our Salvation not the source of it.. ..a marker we die with Christ and we are raised with him..
296 posted on 01/01/2003 9:14:22 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: xzins; RnMomof7; OrthodoxPresbyterian
I have no questions. I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able, to keep that, which I've committed unto him against that day!!!

But Mom has been a friend to me on the forum and I have found her to be honest. That's already settled.

I'm still waiting on OP to address what the spiritual things are in a previous post.

297 posted on 01/01/2003 9:15:34 PM PST by Jael
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To: xzins
"Calvinian"

This was the contemporary term for adherents of John Calvin in Geneva while he was living. It pre-dates the nasty disputes that erupted after 1609 with the disputes of the Remonstrants.

Sometimes I think it is a more comprehensive term than Calvinist which came into usage much later, a term of derision invented by the Jesuits.

So, we can all be Calvinians and approach the Arminian dispute freshly, like brothers in the fellowship of Geneva.

298 posted on 01/01/2003 9:17:14 PM PST by Precisian
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To: RnMomof7
Nope...never Baptism is a work that does not save ..it is a sign of our Salvation not the source of it.. ..a marker we die with Christ and we are raised with him..

Then you reject the baptism of an unbelieving infant?

Acts 8:36  
..... See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

299 posted on 01/01/2003 9:18:18 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael
He is talking to his disciples here!!! And he is talking about a fulfilled prophecy regarding the Jews!!!!!

He was talking directly to the disciples about that moment in time. He does not not time limit it .Does God change or is He unchanging.

He blinded men all through scripture ..are you going to tell me that he decided to stop?

You never answer me ..was the cross a crap shoot..did Jesus die for none?

300 posted on 01/01/2003 9:18:27 PM PST by RnMomof7
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