Question for Christians: Other gods? (VANITY)

[Arthalion]

This is a serious question for Christians, and it's been nagging at me for about 10 years. I've already posed this question to both a Catholic priest (I'm Catholic) and a Baptist minister, and both danced around the question without really answering it. I know that we have many religious people here on FR, so I'd like to gather YOUR opinions

Is there more than one god in the Universe? As Christians, our first instinct is to answer with a resounding “No!”, but I have developed some doubts over the past decade. These doubts, surprisingly, have sprung from reading the Bible itself.

As an example, the first commandment in my Bible reads: “I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me” Protestants word it: “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”, and other versions of the Old Testament and Torah word it similarly. This raises two interesting questions. 1) This is the Word of God, the Word of Truth, so why does He refer to “strange” or “other” gods, instead of simply calling them “false”? Does this indicate that there ARE other gods, but that God is saying: “Ignore them”? (Some people that I have discussed this with have also pointed out that God doesn’t actually prohibit worshipping other gods either, so long as He is first…I happen to believe that Isaiah disagrees with this point, but I thought I’d mention it).

Another Example from the Bible is found in Genesis, when the Serpent says to Eve “Your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil”. The words of the Serpent are treacherous, but the term “as gods” indicates “as other gods”…again suggesting the existence of other gods. God Himself, after discovering the crimes of Adam and Eve, states “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" One of who? Us? What is “us”?

Among Psalms I found: “"God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; He judgeth among the gods" and "Among the gods there is none like unto thee, 0 Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works" and "I know that the LORD is great, and that our Lord is above all gods".

In Exodus: "In all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it he heard out of thy mouth" Again, why the reference to “other” gods as if they exist, rather than simply labeling them as false?

Ultimately, as a Christian, I do accept that we can never understand the ways of God in this lifetime, so perhaps this question is unanswerable. Even if there are other gods, their existence doesn’t affect either my faith or my dedication to my religion, but answering the question could answer many questions that exist in the world today. We assume, when people are worshipping Gaia, Allah, Luna, or mountain spirits, that they are worshipping false Gods that do not exist. Is it possible that they are worhipping real gods that oppose the will of our one true God? Are the actions of people who believe in other gods the actions of deluded people believing false testament, or are they acting as agents of an opposing diety?

It is an interesting question, and I believe that God gave us curiosity for a reason. I’m asking this question to get my fellow Freepers opinion on the subject, so that I can perhaps get a better understanding of God’s truth and the universe He created for us.

[The Iceman Cometh]

When you refer to the first commandment, God is referring to us humans elevating, or idolizing other gods (little g) that are creations of humanity. When I hear 'Thou shall have no other God's' I understand that to be instructional to those cultures, not only at that time, but also currently, who were polytheistic. Simply stating that humans recognize other gods, doesn't mean that they are real.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Yes, there are other gods...As a Christian, I believe in one God, the Father and Almighty, the Creator of Heaven and earth, all that is seen and unseen...But there are gods created by men, and demons that demand godly worship, which unsuspecting people do...i.e. Satan

[annyokie]

Aristotle refers to God as "the unmoved mover". He has always been and will always be. Whatever we wish to call Him, He is the same diety.

It is the epistimilogical interpretations that are causing your angst, IMHO.

Read St. Thomas Aquinas for the beautiful marriage of Aristotilian philosophy and Christian faith.

[NYFriend]

Good point, Biblical teachings are clear, there are no other true gods, only false gods.

[lilylangtree]

My problem was in understanding the existence of the Trinity until one day I was listening to a minister on the radio. He pointed out there is only place in the Bible that physically shows the existence of the Trinity--Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Look at Matthew 3:16-17.

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Needless to say, I was flabbergasted.

[BioForce1]

Man has always created his gods, rather than his gods creating him.

                                                            Anton LaVey, The Satanic Bible

In the beginning man created god, and in his own image, created he him.

                                                            Ian Anderson, Aqualung

Men seldom imagine gods that are better than themselves, most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.

                                                            Robert A Heinlein, The sayings of Lazarus Long

There are as many gods as there are people.

                                                            Sanskrit Proverb

[stuartcr]

It would help to define god. Also, I believe that some people consider God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as one entity...maybe there could be others included Too bad we won't really know until we die.

[The_Reader_David]

I think the question comes down to whether there are spiritual realitites which were reflected in the pagan's misconceived 'gods.'

As an Orthodox Christian, I am quite certain that the ground-of-all-being is personal, and indeed transpersonal, being the All-Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, both unique and transcending our finite conception of uniqueness, the one God.

That being said, it is quite possible that the 'gods' of the pagan reflect some real beings, either demons who lead men astray into worshipping them, or the honorable bodiless powers misunderstood and misconceived by the materialistic imagination of fallen man. (For instance is Socrates 'genius' or 'daemon' perhaps a misconception of a guardian angel? St. Basil the Great in his anaphora speaks of assigning guardian angels as one of the ways in which God did not abandon mankind in the time between the Fall and the coming of Christ.)

Fr. Seraphim Rose in his book The Soul After Death takes a position something like this, arguing that many non-Christian accounts of the afterlife provide support for the traditional Orthodox teaching when viewed as being mistold accounts of real thing, which, however, confuse the created (and thus natural) spiritual realm (which includes both demons and angels) with the truely supernatural (which is the Uncreated God, alone).

[Alex Murphy]

bump for later

[BibChr]

Add to some of the points above the fact that, in Hebrew, the word for "other" (acher) often has the connotation of "alien," "foreign." The idea, then, is not of equally valid options, but of the right option (field of one), and alien, strange, wrong options (broad field).

Dan

[chicagolady]

I am a Christian and have a lot of other Gods in my life! At times I worship people, places, and things, they then become Gods.

They Always fail me and I am thankful for the Holy Spirit that taps my shoulder and reminds me that Nothing satisfies or has Power like the One True Living God Jesus Christ!


You can make anything a god, if it is a god to you and gets all of your attention and worship.

[semaj]

There are "gods" or spirits with what humans would consider god-like powers, and then there is the One True God who has power and dominion over all creation, including Heaven and earth. Only he is worthy to be glorified.

[Rad_J]

ping. you may want to ping others in your list.

[Arthalion]

When you refer to the first commandment, God is referring to us humans elevating, or idolizing other gods (little g) that are creations of humanity. When I hear 'Thou shall have no other God's' I understand that to be instructional to those cultures, not only at that time, but also currently, who were polytheistic. Simply stating that humans recognize other gods, doesn't mean that they are real. But God Himself refers to other gods, though He is adamant that we do not worhip them. I understand what you are saying, and I believed that myself for most of my life, but I have to wonder if we "assume" incorrectly when we try to "assume" meaning into God's words. Ultimately, only He knows what He really meant.

[Arthalion]

Read St. Thomas Aquinas for the beautiful marriage of Aristotilian philosophy and Christian faith. Sounds interesting. I've intended to read St. Aquinas for many years, but never seemed to have the time. Maybe I should "find" the time.

[Freebird Forever]

If you own (or can borrow) a Bible concordance, look up the word gods. It's an interesting study to see the word is applied in the Inspired Scriptures. Reference is made to a number of entities.

[onedoug]

Ethical Monotheism

[Quix]

An interesting question.

Have pondered such points.

And, there was a missionary who'd had 40 years service in the Amazon region and had prayed for 7 years to be able to visit Heaven and return to tell about it.

Claimed to have then spent 5 earth days in Heaven.

His tapes have been lost in my moves to China etc.

Anyway--he CLAIMED that near The Father's throne was a WINDOW on WHERE GOD CAME FROM.

And, that at the end of all of whatever with our known earth and universe(s), God would wrap all this up and take us and it BACK TO WHERE HE CAME FROM.

Curious ideas.

I think it doesn't matter.

I BELIEVE God The Father IS THE ONE AND ONLY GOD of any Supreme, TOP authority and power.

In any case, HE IS THAT as far as anything to do with US is concerned.

He's NOT stupid enough to allow ANY existential or other reality or position wherein His manipulative creation would jocky to play Him off against one of His supposed peers, colleagues or God-head family members.

I always come back to the bottom line.

God Is Love and Truth.

As Spock pointed out in the Star Trek alternate reality program--any other reality would self-destruct in Stardate umpty-ump.

True, we don't know the parameters and therefore the exhaustive definition of the terms God uses in some key verses. It doesn't matter. We understand enough of what they mean in terms of how they apply to us.

We certainly understand sufficiently to make eternal decisions in terms of whether we will spend eternity WITH GOD or AWAY FROM intimacy with HIM.

What else matters beyond that decision?

At that point, whatever will be, will be and in accord with HIS AUTHORITY, POWER, TRUTH, LOVE as manifested THEN.

[Arthalion]

Only he is worthy to be glorified.

Please understand that I'm not challenging that. I do not seek other gods to glorify them, but to understand their role (or lack of one) in the universe. When I see Christianity being trashed daily around the world, when I see the once Christian nations of Europe refusing to even mention Him in their constitutions, when I see the anti-Christian religions spreading over the world every day, and when I see our enlightened societies descending into a cesspool of self-gratifying hedonism, I can't help but wonder whether there are other forces at play in the world. The presence of "other gods" fighting His Word would explain a lot.