Angry cries of America's 'outsourced' middle class

They left their old jobs and moved into the auto assembly and parts plants by the millions where they made a lot more money and had better benefits and became middle class Americans.

And then the "IT industry" automated those jobs out of existence or relegated them to clearing the occasional jammed part. . Well who are you mad at now?

321 posted on 03/09/2004 9:16:19 PM PST by Texasforever (I apologize in advance)

So, you think it's the gubmints job to save your job?

322 posted on 03/09/2004 9:17:29 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Unless the world is made safe for Democracy, Democracy won't be safe in the world.)

There's 'IT centers' which take calls but also do a majority of the actual technical fixing stuff on that first call. It's quite a difference.

Been there - seen that -

- why do you think I'm drilling down to such specifics and details on this subject?

The 'details' in the arguments on this subject have been based, for the most part by the participants it seems, on very superficial knowledge of this 'field' (IT, IT jobs, call centers, et al) under discussion - whereas the correct terms, the terms that more accurately describe the job functions of a vast majority of these 'jobs' does seem to fall into the 'call center' and 'customer service' areas. Tertiary, there is also the 'tech help' aspect - although tech support/tech help is, speaking specifically again, part of the service aspect of the business, and, an expense that is born directly by the business (excluding those that operate via pay per call, contract for service, etc.) ...

323 posted on 03/09/2004 9:17:36 PM PST by _Jim ( <--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))

To: Texasforever

Is 20% unemployment alright with you?

The medicine must sometimes be harsh, if the patient is to be saved. But I am not at all sure that your dire prediction is true. We are the biggest market in the world by far - I think we could put Americans to work satisfying that market.

324 posted on 03/09/2004 9:17:42 PM PST by neutrino (Oderint dum metuant: Let them hate us, so long as they fear us.)

Boy, I haven't heard that line before.

Darn, sure looks like all the folks who never voted for President Bush before, by golly for sure aren't going to be supporting him again, this time...amazing how he could have alienated in alienated base so quickly.

325 posted on 03/09/2004 9:18:07 PM PST by CWOJackson (What are you complaining about, she called me compassionate...)

Good grief! I'm happy to find someone with some levity! After skimming this thread I was just about to slash my wrist! I’ve never seen so many fatalists in one place.

And to think that we live in the most prosperous nation in the world which is presently leading the world out of recession...and yet all these people see is gloom and doom.

If I've learned one thing in life, it's that a lack graditude is one of the worst character traits there is.
It's an attitude that can undo the benifits of skills or giftedness, education, good looks or anything positive a person has going for them.

Who wants to be around somebody who drags you down with negativity and discouragement? Not me!

326 posted on 03/09/2004 9:18:35 PM PST by Jorge

327 posted on 03/09/2004 9:18:39 PM PST by Texasforever (I apologize in advance)

Must have been a nice microwave for $102! I didn't think you could spend that much on them any longer.

They are practically sold on chains at the checkout counter these days!

After I got married my mom wanted to give us nice first Xmas together gift. It was 1985. She bought us a microwave oven. Of course, it was before they had better manufacturing and microchips and well before they realized people weren't going to cook 14 lb. turkey Thanksgiving dinners in them no matter what!

It weighed a ton! It was half the size of a dishwasher. I had a two level interior with a meat probe. It had so many buttons on the thing I was afraid I'd launch an ICBM with them. Oh yeah, it was nice. But many features were standard for the time.

I finally got her to tell me how much she spent on it and it was $600.

So according to most of the "we are losing jobs to (from decades past to the present) Mexico/Taiwan/Japan (but in the 80's the doom and gloom was all the Japanese in-sourcing - they called it a 'takeover' with Japan buying businesses and employing Americans - but all their profits were being outsourced! Oh HORROR!) /Canada/India/now China", all those poor Americans that made those $600 microwave ovens shouldn't have lost their job.

So the fact the machines got more advanced and could be put together by semi-literate hominids means nothing to them. Or the fact once everyone decided the microwave was never going to be anything more than cleaner popcorn popper, hot beverage warmer, meat defroster, hot dog cooker, convientstore food nukers, etc. that no one was going to pay money for what became a toaster steroids.

And think about this. In my dorm room in college we had a toaster, popcorn popper (oil in bottom, butter on the top style and a mess to clean up), small sandwich maker for grilled cheese or making burgers and hot dogs, and a heating element for pots of water or chili or soup, etc.

I got most of these devices as gifts because I was in college. And they weren't cheap. We are talking 1977-78 and we all know how wonderful the economy was back then (barf!). ;-) I know the popcorn popper cost almost $40 because my mom wasn't going to buy it if I wasn't going to really use it (it got worn out on my floor - everyone used it). The toaster was over $25 and the sandwich maker was around $40. My grandparents, for a graduation present from high school, bought me a small, small, small B&W TV that cost over $200.

Now, all of those items (except the TV of course unless you are really, really stupid and watch things cook for entertainment - lol) can be done by one small $50 microwave oven.

So all those people that made those toasters (and still do) and popcorn poppers (not as many) and small sandwich grills (mostly George Foreman's) aren't making as many and probably lost jobs. And where those jobs went didn't matter. Their products were mostly replaced by a new technology, a new device.

Every job, every technology, every industry, every product, every service, every idea will always go through these transformations.

But even 250 years from now, the nuclear space engine workers will be whining about jobs going to Mars and being lost to that new upstart company - Zefram's Warp Core, Inc.

328 posted on 03/09/2004 9:18:49 PM PST by Fledermaus (Democrats! The party of total Anarchy!)

To: Texasforever

"And then the "IT industry" automated those jobs out of existence or relegated them to clearing the occasional jammed part."

But that was only after tariffs enacted to protect our auto industry forced the Japanese to come here and take over the American market.

329 posted on 03/09/2004 9:19:15 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Unless the world is made safe for Democracy, Democracy won't be safe in the world.)

You thought the thread the other night was crazy wait 'till ya get a load of this one.

330 posted on 03/09/2004 9:20:13 PM PST by Texasforever (I apologize in advance)

You got your facts all wrong. Marx was in favor of free trade because it will bring on a communist revolution in the end. Free traitors are the foot-soldiers of communism in this new century.

He** if it wasn't for "free trade" Red China would have crumbled and died by now like the USSR, but the free traitors rode to the commies rescue and we will pay mightily for that mistake in the future, no doubt.

331 posted on 03/09/2004 9:21:34 PM PST by Walkin Man

"Who wants to be around somebody who drags you down with negativity and discouragement? Not me!"

With no detraction of his record, I think this is one of the key elements why people like Reagan so much. The nation had just gone through Vietnam, the hippie war protesters (this is not an endorsement of Kerry), Watergate, a recession, gas rationing and Jimmy Carter.

Nationally we were a pretty depressed lot...and having Carter running around the world apologizing didn't help things.

Reagan came along, smiling, and telling us we didn't have anything to be ashamed of.

332 posted on 03/09/2004 9:22:09 PM PST by CWOJackson (What are you complaining about, she called me compassionate...)

Well said! I can't believe so many so-called conservatives are screaming for the government to HELP them. {shaking head}

333 posted on 03/09/2004 9:22:42 PM PST by hobson

334 posted on 03/09/2004 9:23:40 PM PST by CWOJackson (What are you complaining about, she called me compassionate...)

He and his party think its so great to kill our middle class jobs

Genuine, grade A hyperbole ... sans reason, but chock-full of bold assertion.

AND will you be recanting these words in the next few years when the economy turns around and boom times are upon us once again?

Nope, probably not. You'll be enjoying the prosperity and have forgotten completely the 'minor business realignment' years that we have just gone through ...

335 posted on 03/09/2004 9:24:14 PM PST by _Jim ( <--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))

"You got your facts all wrong. Marx was in favor..."

No, I'm not the one quoting Marx in support of isolationism. That would be one of your side.

336 posted on 03/09/2004 9:25:01 PM PST by CWOJackson (What are you complaining about, she called me compassionate...)

To: Mike Darancette

Oh why, oh why didn't President McKinley outlaw automobiles so that buggywhip makers and blacksmiths would not lose their jobs?

Is your comment supposed to be, in any way, related to the article? You're talking about certain jobs replacing other jobs, all done by Americans, as technology advanced during a certain period in American history, The article is talking about jobs being taken away from Americans and being shipped overseas so foreigners can do them for less pay, leaving Americans unemployed.

337 posted on 03/09/2004 9:27:40 PM PST by judgeandjury

>Well said! I can't believe so many so-called conservatives are screaming for the government to HELP them. {shaking head}

This would make sense except for the fact that offshoring is not the result of free trade or the result of a govt 'hands off' policy, but is abetted by complex, interlocking govt regulations, trade agreements, capital subsidies and tariffs (yes tariffs not by Uncle Sucker but by our trading 'partners) specifically designed to depress the earnings of some economic entities and increase the profits of others.

338 posted on 03/09/2004 9:27:54 PM PST by Dialup Llama

Nope, probably not. You'll be enjoying the prosperity and have forgotten completely the 'minor business realignment' years that we have just gone through ...

My bet is on continued manufactured "outrage"; the one manufacturing job the United States leads the world in.

339 posted on 03/09/2004 9:28:37 PM PST by Texasforever (I apologize in advance)

I get real tired of hearing this free trade propaganda BS...

AND the alternative is .... government control?

GIVE ME A BREAK!

YOU want POLITICIANS in charge of TRADE?

Methinks you're NOT SANE man!

340 posted on 03/09/2004 9:29:46 PM PST by _Jim ( <--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))

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