L. Ron Hubbard has better lobbyists than God

TownHall.com ^ | Wednesday, April 7, 2004 | by Ben Shapiro

[OutInTheColdAgain]

Most respectfully asked, Do you consider Scientology a religion? What about the outer space stuff were you / are you accepting that as something that did happen? Again respectfully asked as you are the first person I have ever communicated with who was a member. Thanks

[null and void]

*shrug* Truth is where you find it.

Some of scientology is pretty good. Most of it is so-so. And some of it is pure evil.

I was able to cherry pick quite a bit of good stuff, without getting too badly burned in the process.

May I ask what your experience is? I'm guessing you've lost a friend or two the the, ummm, organization...

[null and void]

Yes. Scientology is a religion. It deals with ultimate questions of existence. It has rituals and practices intended (or at least asserted) to improve one's spiritual wellbeing.

OTOH islam is also a religion...

[Fledermaus]

A religion? Lol...two words: BattleStar Earth!

[OutInTheColdAgain]

Is there like any type of "God" in the religion? Because if it is just about the followers existence then wouldn't it be more like secular humanism? I appreciate your comments, I am learning something new tonight.

[null and void]

Sort of. Scientology doesn't directly address God, but then again Buddhism doesn't even have a God, yet it is recognized as a religion.

The closest scientology gets is in one of the ways of looking at the world, through the prism of survival urges called "dynamics" there are eight:

1st dynamic - survival of yourself
2nd dynamic - survival of your family (including thru sex)
3rd dynamic - survival of your groups (clan, tribe, country)
4th dynamic - survival of your species
5th dynamic - survival of all living things
6th dynamic - survival of all physical things
7th dynamic - survival of all spiritual things (thetans)
8th dynamic - survival of "everything else" (God)

Each dynamic is a subset of the next higher dynamic.

Scientology doesn't directly addres the 8th dynamic, but it is said that as you get the lower dynamics in good shape, the 8th becomes clear. Yeah, riiiight!

I'll answer your questions as best I can, I've been out quite a while and am a bit rusty...

[OutInTheColdAgain]

Do you think Scientology is more like psychology than religion?

[null and void]

Oh! I missed this part:

What about the outer space stuff were you / are you accepting that as something that did happen?

Some members do, some don't. I'm willing to allow that a lot could have happened in the past 13.5 billion years. Whether the Hubbard version is accurate? Dunno. I rather doubt it happened exactly as he described it. He was a hack science fiction writer, after all!

The conclusion I finally came to was it didn't really matter if the incidents run in session "really" happened. It is sufficient that the person running them achieved relief from something that's bugging them and/or recovery of abilities.

[OutInTheColdAgain]

I am being honest here, I don't know all that much about other religions. If Buddhism doesn't have a God then what are all those statues of Buddha all over the world? I figured Buddha was either a God or a Prophet, and by definition if he is a Prophet then isn't he evangelizing on behalf of his God? Again thanks

[null and void]

Hmmmm. Good question. They are sort of like Jews and Arabs. Evil twins of each other.

The asserted goals for each are similar - happy well adjusted people living in a sane world.

In practice they are both on power trips!

[null and void]

I'm not a Buddhist, but my understanding is that Buddha is revered as the first person to wake up. The statues are intended to remind people that the goal is achievable.

Are there Buddhist who worship these graven images? I don't doubt it.

It's much the same with some Christians who worship the cross, and pray to Mary and Saints (Thou shall have NO Gods before Me...)

Some people NEED a tangible "god"..

[OutInTheColdAgain]

What do you by "Buddha was the first person to "wake up""? Was he kinda like Adam, the first human being created by God?

[OutInTheColdAgain]

To the best of your knowledge, and I know it has been a while for you, is there a tangible God in Scientology?

[null and void]

No, he just sat under a tree and decided to become enlightened. (After decades of trying to do it the hardway - fasting, meditation, mortifying the flesh, hedonism, etc.)

[Truth666]

Sects are a very important weapon used by western governments today

[null and void]

No. Not at all. The general impression is that it's the organization's third rail - touch it and die!

By not addressing God, they avoid having to take a stand that would conflict with an established church's view of God. A very shrewd maneuver.

[null and void]

I expect by now there is a group who thinks Ron is God...

[OutInTheColdAgain]

okay I got what you mean about Buddhism. You explained it very well. Nice short and simple. He sat under a tree one day and was enlightened. Everyone else who follows Buddhism is reaching for enlightenment. As far as religion goes it doesn't seem that much more bizarre than religions who accept angles descending to earth and talking to us. Actually Buddhism makes more sense to me as a religion than Scientology, no offense intended. Scientology still seems to me to be psychology disguised as religion. I would have to learn more about it to dismiss my initial reaction.

[null and void]

Buddhism makes more sense to me as a religion than Scientology, no offense intended.

None taken.

Scientology still seems to me to be psychology disguised as religion. I would have to learn more about it to dismiss my initial reaction.

Probably pretty close to the truth, although it might be a religion disguised as psychology.

If I can be of further help, you're welcome to FReep mail me.

[OutInTheColdAgain]

Thanks. You answered my question there is no "God" in Scientology. It is a taboo subject and they avoid it because if they came out and said there is no God then they couldn't get tax exempt status as a church. So it is mostly about becoming an individual better person, then becoming a better person in your family, then becoming a better person in society, then becoming a better person in the world. Am I getting close to understanding the organization?