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FR | 4-1-05 | Bob J

Posted on 04/01/2005 9:51:33 PM PST by Bob J

For those of you who don’t know, Jim and the mods treat old timers a little different than newbies. They get a little more slack, a few more mulligans than those who signed up in last four years or so.

I always wondered if that was a good policy. After all, why should the crusty buggers be treated any differently than someone who signed up last week? Are they more intelligent, are their arguments more cohesive…persuasive? Do they have any more or less to contribute to this community we call the Free Republic? Not necessarily.

But they do have one thing new participants don’t and that is perspective. In a way us curmudgeons can help provide a sense of continuity and historical perspective to events that newcomers cannot. Sometimes, we are the glue the bridges Free Republic from one crisis to the next. I believe the recent Sciavo issue is one of those times so I am going to ante again and prove to Jim that his investment is worthy of it’s returns. I ask other old timers to chime in and pull their weight as well.

The Forum has a history of going through upheavels in terms of political philosophy and/or cultural standards, this is not unusual for a community such as outs. The first thing we need to understand is that the conservative movement is made up of many individuals with different motivations. For example, some are economic minded, some are culturally based, some are second amendment supporters and others view their vision on religious principles. Sometimes these differences can cause us to reevaluate our alliances. But that would be a mistake. The left is counting on us tearing ourselves apart from within for that is the very philosophy upon which their strategy is based…foment division and hatred then attack at the breach. It has worked well for them in the past and they count on it working again for them now and in the future.

My humble opinion and suggestion to all is in these times of contention and confusion, that we remind ourselves who the real enemy is and where the battles ought to be fought. On more than one occasion I have had firefights on FR with individuals who later I found myself sitting next to in a foxhole when we were fighting the real enemy…the militant left. I berated myself for some of the things I had posted and wished I could take them back. For here was my true brother or sister, sitting in the foxhole with me, taking hits with me, helping to lead the bravest charge at our direst moment. How could I have been so thoughtless in my moment of indulgence?

We may divided, on occasion, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that we are all brothers and sisters fighting the good fight against those who would enslave us and our children into bondage for generations. Argue the good argument, stand on principle, but let’s not forget we are all ultimately on the same team. The man or woman you trash today might be the brave soul who saves your behind tomorrow.

Let’s keep out eye on the ball.


TOPICS: Free Republic
KEYWORDS: antiopus; faq; fr; freerepublic
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To: little jeremiah
Because I misspelled his name in the dang address box, that's why. :-p

I did not mean to suggest that the topic you were discussing is unimportant. I find it fascinating myself - but deism is not always biblical and sometimes in contravention - Jefferson wrote a deist "bible," for example. But there, you see I'm wandering off topic myself...

161 posted on 04/01/2005 11:51:02 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: AAABEST

"It's a pitiful state to be in when one believes that any type of document trumps the bible."

What if you've never read the Bible? I think it's a pitiful state when people think the Bible should trump the freedom of the people or the person.


162 posted on 04/01/2005 11:51:03 PM PST by Sun Soldier
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To: hleewilder

BTW, how do you estimate all the men who wrote as well as signed our founding docuemnts informed themselves about right and wrong?


163 posted on 04/01/2005 11:51:13 PM PST by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: It's me

I had a temper tantrum once, and left... and then came back, and ate the crow. lol


164 posted on 04/01/2005 11:52:01 PM PST by Critter (America, home of the whipped.)
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To: Critter

18,428


165 posted on 04/01/2005 11:53:07 PM PST by hole_n_one
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To: Sun Soldier

Read my post below yours.

The basic rules of human civilization are universal and listed in practically every religion in the world. They also happen to be in the Bible.

Should we reject them for that reason?


166 posted on 04/01/2005 11:53:12 PM PST by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: Bob J
FYI.....

Your post and subsequent thread is falling apart.

167 posted on 04/01/2005 11:54:24 PM PST by hole_n_one
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To: justshe

No,indeed, and that was far worse than the Elian dustup was.


168 posted on 04/01/2005 11:54:33 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Bob J

I think the recent issue has totally splintered the site, and it should be interesting to see whether people coalesce once again against the common foe. I've stayed almost completely off all the Shiavo threads because tempers are just too hot, and there's no possible way two people on a thread that see the issue different can politely disagree. At least, I haven't seen that anywhere. BTW, us old guys should, in my opinion, get a small benefit of the doubt, especially ones from 2000 or older ;)


169 posted on 04/01/2005 11:54:50 PM PST by SoDak (hoist that rag!)
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To: Billthedrill

Sorry I'm a bit testy. Or short of sleep!

Little jeremiah's better half is sleeping peacefully while I hunch over the computer unable to tear myself away.

I put a link to this thread over on Poobah's opus, I figured if a few read Bob J's words it'd do some good.

Nighty night, all!


170 posted on 04/01/2005 11:56:03 PM PST by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
The only possible "torture" for Terri was not allowing her to pass over a decade ago.

Perhaps, but the doctors and the judges showed their collective cowardess, by the method they chose, ie. starvation/dehydration. If they were so confident in the rightness of their decisions and actions, why did they not use a lethal injection, which, in my opinion would have been more humane?

Let's not get started. It's over, but then again, it's just getting started.

171 posted on 04/01/2005 11:56:33 PM PST by semaj ("....by their fruit you will know them.")
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To: Critter

you are 18428


172 posted on 04/01/2005 11:57:41 PM PST by jpsb
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To: hole_n_one

It can't be all textbook.

This is the lab work.


173 posted on 04/01/2005 11:57:50 PM PST by Flyer ( http://dahtcom.com)
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To: hole_n_one

Not really. Actually fairly polite give and take, back and forth.

Just 'cause we're not holding hands and playing ring around the rosie.


174 posted on 04/01/2005 11:57:56 PM PST by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: leadpenny
Did you watch the entire L&H marathon, or just a few of the movies?

Are you an L&H fan?

175 posted on 04/02/2005 12:02:30 AM PST by nopardons
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To: jpsb; hole_n_one

Thanks to both.

What's the current member count? Just curious.


176 posted on 04/02/2005 12:02:52 AM PST by Critter (America, home of the whipped.)
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To: jveritas

I was still a lurker during the Elien days, but it was fairly simple. It was a matter of priorities. Everyone pretty much agreed that provided he was fit, a child belonged with his father. Everyone pretty much agreed that a child was better off in Florida than in Cuba. Unfortunately, that's where the rubber met the road. Those who gave the higher priority to keeping a boy with his father were excoriated by those who believed it was best he stay in America, even if it meant he would never see his father again. The latter in turn called the former every name in the book. It was pure ugliness.


177 posted on 04/02/2005 12:05:08 AM PST by Melas
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To: Critter
Go to your (or anyone else's) personal page. Click on "In Forum." That FReeper's sign-up sequence # will be in the "Address" line.
178 posted on 04/02/2005 12:05:40 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: little jeremiah
Ya just never know when an outbreak of ring-around-the-rosie is gonna break out.......


179 posted on 04/02/2005 12:05:54 AM PST by hole_n_one
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To: HiTech RedNeck; OH Swing Voter; Bob J; All
There's no way a sane soul can fail to see that this leads to an enslavement to forces far worse than mere political oppression.

I don't see how anyone could be a conservative and not value life. To me that is part of the definition of a conservative.

 I'm not meaning to single out anyone in particular, but this is a very good example of part of what has been happening for the past few weeks and what is so detrimental for the forum.   It seems that the Schiavo tragedy has brought out a lot of polarizing approaches and behaviors in FReepers.  And I'm talking about FReepers who are on both sides of this issue.   On any given day & at any given moment, people seem to be slipping into a momentary lapse in good judgment, overcome with emotion and displaying a dichotomous "all or nothing" behavior that's contributing to the chaos.  And to make it worse, some people are highly sensitive about it.   Many of the people posting on the Terri threads are slipping into this 'absolutes' mindset, seemingly unable to understand nor accept any other viewpoint but their own. It doesn't matter who started it; it just is.

FR is not a place where a person is going to be happy if he cannot tolerate other people's points of view and have a rational, intelligent discourse, especially when discussing something as polarizing as end-of-life issues.  When speaking about viewpoints and opinions, there are no 'absolutes' at FR (other than "What the owner says, goes.").   FReepers come from all sorts of backgrounds and have all different kinds of opinions and viewpoints.  Yet we all fall under the big "conservative" tent.

Again, I'm not saying the alleged "kill Terri" crowd is innocent in this thing, by any means.  Obviously, they are highly p.o.'d and some really cruel and hurtful comments have been made.   I've tried to stay more or less neutral on this thing, hoping I could try to inject a little levity or balance into the conversation whenever I saw an opportunity.  But just yesterday, this was the defensive response from someone:

My comments:

I may post a thread later that says I fed my cat tonight. Someone will ask me if my cat is named Terri.

LOL!

I was thinking about this today and I think I figured it all out. There are many people here who have been following Terri for years. Those Shiavo threads have been around for what seems like forever. And all those people are heavily invested emotionally in her, much more so than for those of us who just started paying attention to it in the last 2 weeks. In other words, they're grieving. And don't laugh -- it's real. It's going to take a while for them to work through all the accompanying emotions, that's all.

I really wish everyone could stop expecting so much from the other side. And I mean both sides.

One side needs to stop expecting everyone else at FR to be grieving and boo-hooing like they are, and the other side needs to let the 1st side grieve without laughing at them in public and saying they're maniacal nutcases.

Dang, I should charge for this.

 

Someone's response: 

"Those Shiavo threads have been around for what seems like forever. And all those people are heavily invested emotionally in her, much more so than for those of us who just started paying attention to it in the last 2 weeks."

Wow, you just started paying attention 2 weeks ago? I guess us Freepers that have paid attention to it for years(did you avoid the threads for years?) must be wack-jobs that are overzealous about the idea "right to life"

Here's a suggestion: if you avoided the issue for years, why don't you hold on to that trend and just leave us "heavily invested emotionally in her" Freepers alone? You won't have to insult us with your presumed indifference and hence don't have to wait until we can "stop expecting everyone else at FR to be grieving and boo-hooing like (we) are"

You are now officially, in regards to this issue and by your own declaration, the "other side". You should shudder when you realize the ideoligical company you share.

 

This person was so defensive, he automatically assumed I was saying something I was not saying.  This is happening way too much on both sides.

Just like the Elian matter, it's getting  old.

It's time for an amnesty.


(Again, I'm not trying to pick on anyone here. It's just that those 2 comments came within 6 replies of the thread being posted.)

180 posted on 04/02/2005 12:06:26 AM PST by Nita Nupress
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