Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism (Pope Bound for Hell).

Knoxville News-Sentinel Co. ^ | April 13, 2005 | JEANNINE F. HUNTER

[Dean Baker]

Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005

NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.

"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."

The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."

The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.

"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."

It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.

"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.

He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."

Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."

Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.

"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.

James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.

"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."

Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.

"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.

Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.

Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.

[SF Republican]

Ive been told right here in the Forum that I'm going to hell because I don't attend church - well I go to church but I am told I am going to hell because I live in San Francisco

[MeanWestTexan]

I saw another post responding to your question, "What about the Jews?"

The response was --- well, they go to Heaven just because they are the chosen people.

I hope this is true (as a Jew who converted to Christianity worried about my kinfolk), but I don't think it is Biblically the most safe answer.

The Jews, are, of course heirs of Abraham and the promise. No doubt about that. Theologically, Chrisitans are heirs to that promise by being adopted into the family.

BUT, Paul (and Jesus) talked at length about how quick God was to break off branched from the vine . . . that is, reject Jews who failed to accept Christ.

So opinions differ.

[Chode]

According to Protestant doctine, ministers of religion have no special power or authority that is not available to everyone else. Catholics maintain that priests are the heirs of the Apostles, and were indirectly appointed and authorized to perform special functions.

no... Priests/Ministers DO have power not available to anyone else... the can MARRY people and YOU not I can't, they can Baptize babies where we can only do it in an emergency etc... so there are things only they can do.

Protestants maintain that belief is the sole criteria for salvation. While good behavior is a logic consequence of belief, it is not of any value. Catholics have a different position on free will that enables them to say that good works and holy living are spitirually valuable.

Good works and Holy living ARE spiritually valuable... if only to the one who believes it...
i can't help but believe that the Trinity doesn't look on those who truly try to help their brothers and sisters more kindly than those who could care less what happens to them... that's where pergatory comes in... the better life you lead here the less time you'll spend there before going to Heaven!!!

but then again... that's just me 8^)

[JohnnyZ]

Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

Of all the things I hear from Protestants that I disagree with -- and believe me there are multitudes -- this is the stupidest one out there.

They don't believe you can call a priest 'father'. They don't believe you can call your father 'father'. They presumably object to the one-hit wonder "Daddy Dewdrop" and refuse to listed to his song.

I'm all about polite disagreement, but ign'ant is ign'ant!

[Designed]

Jesus promised the APOSTLES in John 14 and in John 16 that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide them into ALL truth (obviously spiritual truth), and bring to their remembrance all that he had said to them. In 2 Peter 1:3 Peter said that by the time he wrote that God had granted ALL things that pertain unto life and godliness. So Jesus did what he said he would do. In Jude, verse 3, Jude said that Christians should earnestly contend for THE faith once for all delivered to the saints. (All Christians are saints -- too many passages to cite) Over and over the New Testament writers claimed that the complete gospel was given in the first century. Paul said that if anyone, even himself or an angel from heaven, should preach any other gospel than that which was delivered in the first century, "let him be eternally destroyed." (Galatians 1:6-9) Jesus had earlier said (Matthew 15) that if anyone teaches the traditions of men instead of the teachings of God, that his worship is vain -- useless. The question that Bible believers need to ask and answer is this, "Am I teaching the gospel as found in the scripture, or am I adding to it, deleting from it, or otherwise perverting it?" Along these same lines, Is the Catholic Church, or any other church for that matter, teaching the APOSTOLIC faith or are they teaching the uninspired doctrines of men that originated after the apostles' day? We have no God-given authority to teach anything that is not in the scriptures -- no matter what any council, or synod, or self-styled inspired man may say.

[joesbucks]

That pastor is the Ann Coulter/Michale Moore of the Baptist faith.

[Lekker 1]

Well, Hindus believe in stories much older than that, so clearly more than the hands of time are required to make something true.

[Logophile]

Historically, Allah was a pagan idol, supreme among many idols worshiped by Muhammad's Quraish tribe long before he was born.

Whatever the name might have meant at one time, I am told that Allah is simply Arabic for "God," and that Allah is the name used for God in Arabic translations of the Bible. Can someone confirm this?

[Rutles4Ever]

God's grace covers all your sins - past, present and future when you accept him as your personal savior. It is only through the shedding of Jesus's blood that this is possible (at least thats what I believe based again, on the Bible).

That's a wonderful thought. But where did this grace come from before Jesus shed his blood on the cross? Mary was sinless since she was "full of grace" prior to the Crucifixion based again, on the Bible.

[Rutles4Ever]

Do the hands of time make it false?

[Dean Baker]

Hmmm...

Leads to another question...

Why do Jews practice differently? If they're all guaranteed spots in Heaven, why go to the trouble of being especially "Religious"? (If that makes sense?)

I am guessing the answer is that it makes them happy, or content while here on earth. Which, personally, is why I respect all those of different faiths..."Whatever makes them happy is fine with me".

[concerned about politics]

I started reading the Bible and we started attending church at the Catholic church where my wife grew up. After 30 days of Bible study, I told her that there were some things being taught in her church that appeared to be "twisted" out of context with what I was reading in the Bible. To say the least, she was not pleased with this statement. After a while thought, she started checking out the teachings with what was in the Bible. She also eventually came to the conclusion that there were things "not quite right" with what was being taught.

Much of their teachings came from the merging of Catholicism with the Roman Babylonian Brotherhood. Mary didn't show up on the scene until 250 years after Christs Crucifixion. The rosary came years after that. It's two religions merged into one. That's why many of the things they do aren't mentioned or required in the Bible. The Church rituals are handed down through generations.

[FormerLib]

"No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!"

Well, they've certainly put their Christian love out for all to see.

[rmichaelj]

God is not limited by a linear flow of time as we are.

[AD from SpringBay]

This is all old stuff, going back to Luther and Calvin.

There were believers who didn't agree with Catholic teachings before Calvin and Luther. There are better things to do with faith and Bible teachings than protest.

[DannyTN]

"I've seen conversations where those who are "Born Again" (Pardon me if I'm not using the correct term), consider Catholics and other religious people "Bound for Hell" because they don't worship correctly. "

The following are my opinions formed as a Baptist who grew up in Lousiana with some close Catholic friends.

I don't think it's very widespread. But there are a few in most communities that are staunchly "anti-Catholic" and there are a greater number who are just uncomfortable with some of the Catholic traditions. Those stauch anti-Catholics include a few small cults whose main teachings seem to be anti-catholic, people who have

I think most Christian scholars who have looked at the issue understand that the Catholic church has a correct understanding of the nature of God and God's plan of salvation. Those two are the critical doctrines that Christian denominations look at to determine if other groups are truly "Christian" or not.

Groups that distort the nature of God or the plan of salvation such as Jehovah's withnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists are deemed outside of Christianity, whereas Catholicism is considered a part of Christianity.

The traditions that cause some Protestants angst with regard to Catholics include:

• Confession to a priest. The protestant fear is that the Catholic is looking to the priest to pronounce forgiveness and is never actually praying to God. Or is just going through the motions and not repentant towards God. My understanding is that Catholic doctrine actually says if you aren't truly repentant then it doesn't matter what the priest says.
• Praying to Saints. The protestant fear is that the Catholics are actually worshipping saints. A saint is nothing but a Christian who has passed on. My understanding of Catholic doctrinie is that praying to Saints is no different than going to a live Christian and asking for intercessory prayer, something we are instructed to do. But I admit it seems a little hokey since the past saints aren't omnipotent, the only way they are going to hear a prayer is if the Holy Spirit passes it on to them, and then why not just pray direct.
• The Church Hierachy. The problems with any human hierarchy is that there are no checks and balances. A lack of checks an balances caused problems in the Jewish priesthood and it's caused problems in the Catholic church as well.
• Exclusiveness. There are always people who haven't matured enough to realize that you don't have to be right on EVERY doctrine to go to heaven. Therefore they think anyone who dissagrees with them on any doctrine is evil. And that's just not the case. They aren't just anti-catholic, they are anti-all the other denominations. Fortunately, this isn't most Christians.
• If you ask a Catholic why God should let them into heaven, they will usually respond, "I hope I'm good enough". That causes some to think that Catholics are trusting in their own works or goodness, instead of in Jesus' work on the cross. But when you remind them that Jesus paid for our sins on the cross, they agree with you. So it appears to me that they know the right answer but their focus is a little off and the question I think exposes a difference in focus than a true doctrinal difference.
• Mary worship. Similar to fear of saint worship. There are those who think the "Hail Mary" prayer and title "Mother of God" and other traditions is actually worshipping Mary as a Diety. Most Catholics, I know, get angry when you make this accusation and vehemently deny it. But rumors of Mary worship continue to surface especially with third world countries.

[MeanWestTexan]

Well, not exactly. (I wish; I am an ethnic Jew.)

To quote Paul on this topic:

. . . For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring . . .

To make a long theological point very short, Christians are adopted into the promise, and Jews, while still the Chosen People, don't necessarily get the benfit of the promise, post-Christ, unless they accept Christ just like everyone else.

[johnk]

(Reverend)

LOL! My wife would probably disagree with you about that Title. She might say Wanna-Be.

I am NO Reverend. Just a man saved from hell. Trying to be used by the Lord when I can.

[Dean Baker]

I had one "Born Again" Christain once tell me...

"In the end (I guess he means the end of times?) we all become Jews".

I think he was refering to those who accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior when he said "All".


This was after I had asked him what happened to the Jews since they didn't believe in Jesus.

[rmichaelj]

"merging of Catholicism with the Roman Babylonian Brotherhood"

May I ask for your source on that?