Posted on 04/14/2005 12:00:51 PM PDT by Dean Baker
Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005
NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.
"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."
The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."
The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.
"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."
It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.
"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.
He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."
Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."
Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.
"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.
James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.
"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."
Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.
"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.
Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "
He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.
Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.
I've seen conversations where those who are "Born Again" (Pardon me if I'm not using the correct term), consider Catholics and other religious people "Bound for Hell" because they don't worship correctly.
How widespread are these beleifs? If at all??
Small-o orthodox, reformed Protestantism teaches that we are saved, if we put our faith in Jesus, by faith alone. Roman Catholic doctrine, despite some attempts to obfuscate the issue in recent years, believe in faith + all sorts of other things, most notably, baptism. And good works (yes, enabled by grace).
It's nothing to do with worshiping correctly, in fact. And you can of course still be in the Roman Catholic church and still be saved. But Roman Catholic dogma, properly understood, as taught in the Catechism, explained by soon-to-be-pope Ratzinger's seminal work, will lead you to a false understanding of salvation, which, assuming we are destined to hell if left unsaved, leads you to hell, according to reformed Protestant doctrine, to which I happen to adhere.
There is only one being who will decide whether you go to Heaven or Hell and that is God.
Case Closed!
Whoever had the audacity to say such a thing to you is completely nuts - and you can tell them that Expatguy said so.
Outside of the Northeast, you can find people who believe that Catholics are not true Christians everywhere. The KKK was anti-Catholic, as well as anti-Jew and anti-Black. Many of the born again types I ran into in Los Angeles, including a Korean presbyterian, had this belief about Catholics.
As with other forms of prejudice, many believe it without being motivated to act on their beliefs in any way, whereas a few take it to extremes.
You know, Luther and Calvin, The cartoon's peeing on Chevy bowties on FORD truck rear windows............
Another one...
http://wate.static.worldnow.com/images/3210286_BG1.jpg
Not photoshoped...But it looks as if it doesn't need to be.
I equally disagree with anyone who, contrary either to the Bible or Roman Catholic dogma, announces it as a certainty that the Pope is in Heaven, and with those who announce it as a certainty that he is not.
As a Biblical Christian, there are only three, maybe four individuals who I know for a Biblical fact will be in Hell: the rich man of Luke 16, Judas, the Beast (aka Antichrist), and the False Prophet.
Otherwise, anyone who is not born again, who does not trust Jesus Christ alone for salvation by the grace of God alone through faith alone, will not see Heaven (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 4; Ephesians 2:8-9, etc.).
For my further thoughts, if you care to, see Biblical Christianity BLOG.
At this point, only God knows which category the Pope is in.
Dan
I can see why it would be offensive and think it was a pretty stupid thing for them to say. The idea of a hell-bound Pope is not historically that unrealistic though. However, there is more evidence that this one truly trusted Christ than some of the more "politically appointed" ones of the past. Again, quite a stupid statement, and just a bit arrogant.
As a side note, Carson-Newman is a more liberal Baptist School. I would have preferred to hear from my more biblically minded Baptist brethren as to the reason's for the Pope's salvation than from someone who is an inclusivist or worse.
LOL. That's the only Calvin I know.
Well, him and some dorky kid I knew in grade school.
The way I see it.
People who presume to tell me what God will do to me aren't showing much concern for their own soul.
When I lived down in the Florida panhandle out in the woods, I routinely got anti-Catholic literature in my mailbox or under my door.
It's there, still, in spite of everything.
There are people who firmly believe precisely what the pastor put on that sign.
There are Catholics who will still tell you that only Catholics can ever go to heaven.
Now, in the case of those Catholics, they are ignorant of their Church's doctrine. But in the case of the fever swamps of the Protestant fringe where that pastor resides, there is not any overarching doctrine that one can point to and say "You're wrong". He will wield the Bible and prove that. I can wield the Bible and prove he's wrong.
In other words:
It was six men of Indoostan
to learning much inclined,
who went to see the Elephant
(though all of them were blind),
that each by observation
might satisfy his mind.
The First approached the Elephant,
and happening to fall
against his broad and sturdy side,
at once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"
The Second, feeling of the tusk,
cried, "Ho! what have we here
so very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
this wonder of an Elephant
is very like a spear!”
The Third approached the animal,
and happening to take
the squirming trunk within his hands,
thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
is very like a snake!”
The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
and felt about the knee.
“What most this wondrous beast is like
is mighty plain,” quoth he;
“ ‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
is very like a tree!”
The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
said: “E’en the blindest man
can tell what this resembles most;
deny the fact who can:
this marvel of an Elephant
is very like a fan!”
The Sixth no sooner had begun
about the beast to grope,
than, seizing on the swinging tail
that fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
is very like a rope!”
And so these men of Indoostan
disputed loud and long,
each in his own opinion
exceeding stiff and strong,
though each was partly in the right,
and all were in the wrong!
So oft in theologic wars,
the disputants, I ween,
rail on in utter ignorance
of what each other mean,
and prate about an Elephant
not one of them has seen!
Er, uh - then we don't need Baptist preachers, either.
Hilarious. Why did Jesus pick twelve apostles again? Being God, one would think He could manage things on His own from Eternity... if He wanted it that way.
"These are the fundamental point of difference between Protestants and Catholics"
But both agree that salvation is attainable only via Jesus Christ.
OOHHHHH!!!! I got it!!!! Have the Babtist Pastor, the Catholic Priest, the Mormon Bishop and an agnostic all get together and pray for a candy bar. Whoever get's the candy bar...they win!!!!!!! (The agnostic will win because he will know to go to the store and purchase one.)
WOW!
Is that the same sign?
Good job TV 6!
Nice to know that some things in this world never change, like some Baptist pastor somewhere being an ass.
I'm surprised at the 12% figure for the Catholic proportion in the Southern population...I would have guessed it was less than that. It may be right given the Hispanics in Florida and Texas, the Cajuns in Louisiana, and the people from other regions of the country who have moved to the South in recent decades.
Shouldn't this pastor be consistent and resign after all no one needs a pastor because as he says "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."
A question, if you're so inclined...
What about the Jews??
I see people of all faiths (Cept for maybe Islam, I guess) refer to them as "God's chosen people". Yet, they've not "Accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior" (Obviously).
Do they go to Hell? Or, just hang-out in Heaven's waiting room until the Rapture (Or whatever it is)?
Beat me to it, too. I was too busy trying to control my laughter.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.