Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism (Pope Bound for Hell).

Knoxville News-Sentinel Co. ^ | April 13, 2005 | JEANNINE F. HUNTER

[Dean Baker]

Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005

NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.

"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."

The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."

The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.

"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."

It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.

"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.

He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."

Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."

Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.

"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.

James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.

"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."

Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.

"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.

Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.

Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.

[Thorin]

>>>>>>Second: since (unless I've forgotten) Scripture only specifies four individuals who certainly are Hellbound, for everyone else, I can't pronounce what might or might not have happened between someone and God in his/her last remaining moments; I can hold to hope

It's good to know that you have no hope the Pope is in Heaven. Thanks for sharing!

[Elsie]

My point was not that my friend would be offended, but that my friend does not find Islam to be as nonsensical as you do. He know his religion better than any outsider, and he undoubtedly has good reasons to follow it.

All this may be true, but ISLAM (the momolith seen by the West) is fracturd with FAR more splits in it than Christianity seems to have in it.

[Elsie]

That's for the explanation - as I had sighed too deeply and passed out!

[Elsie]

All Catholic doctrine is based on public Revelation (i.e., the Scripture). No Catholic is compelled to believe anything based on private revelation.

Then how do we account for all of the VISIONS that so many folks put FAITH in these days?

[BibChr]

It's sad to see that actually thinking honestly through a series of reasonable Biblical questions is disdainful for you.

But thanks for revealing your deepest spiritual need!

Dan

[Elsie]

Eve, however, was disobedient; and when yet a virgin, she did not obey....

Uh...

...how does one know THIS???

---

Someone who gives me the Most Beautiful Woman in the World, naked, and I'm gonna jump her bones before running off to the woods to look at some dumb tree!!!!

[animoveritas]

Hmmm...

Choices, choices, choices...

Do I trust an historic philosopher regarded as a brilliant ontologist whose writing to this day are still used in theology and logic courses throughout the world...or...a former Catholic nun who wrote an essay four years ago, and who apparently has an axe to grind?

[Elsie]

Christians, in contrast, have an addendum to the contract --

UMmm...

not exactly, for that OLD contract was BROKEN - there's NOTHING tht can be added to or taken away from it.

---

NIV Galatians 3:11-19
 11.  Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."
 12.  The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."
 13.  Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
 14.  He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
 15.  Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.
 16.  The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed,"  meaning one person, who is Christ.
 17.  What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
 18.  For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
 19.  What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.

[Romish_Papist]

"Then you aren't needed, either, Pastor.

Write when you get work."

ZING!

[Elsie]

I don't blast the Baptists and other low church types

Then you REALLY didn't mean to use THIS choice of words; right?

[Elsie]

In accurate English, Paul wrote

Just what do you mean here?

Are you a KJV only type?

[BriarBey]

You've bought into a variation of The HOAX
*****

Then you are blind, because the things I know have not come from men.

[ZULU]

Here that sound???

Its the laughter of Wahhabis.

[Elsie]

NOW you've done it!!

The whole C vs A thing will explode before our very eyes!!!


;^)

[BriarBey]

The "release the spirit" is pure B.S.

******

You can only hope.

[Dad was my hero]

Even I, a doubting Protestant who almost never goes to church, could see that. It's possible to disagree with parts of the RC theology without concluding that fine man, who did more to advance the teachings of Christianity than any other one man in the twentieth century, without smearing him and saying he's bound for Hell.

I was baptised Catholic, eventually turned to protestant and returned to the RC faith. I just want to thank you for your kind remarks about John Paul! Maybe someday you'll return to your church or even open your heart to the Catholic Church, either way, God bless you and again thank you, you made my day!

[Elsie]

 

Since the first Christian religion the Catholic Church was started by Peter and the Apostles, as given the authority by Jesus, why woud yo think that Catholics may not be saved, just because they are Catholics?

 

I'll probably get in trouble for the following, but I must....................

 

Is Peter the 'rock'?

 

---

NIV Matthew 4:18-19
 18.  As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
 19.  "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."

 

NIV Matthew 8:14
 14.  When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.

 

NIV Matthew 10:1-2
 1.  He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil  spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
 2.  These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;

 

NIV Matthew 14:28-31
 28.  "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
 29.  "Come," he said.   Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
 30.  But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
 31.  Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"

 

NIV Matthew 15:13-16
 13.  He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
 14.  Leave them; they are blind guides.  If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
 15.  Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
 16.  "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

 

---

As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'

BEFORE the following verses came along.....

---

NIV Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.

 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

---

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
 4.  and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

 

NIV Luke 6:48
 48.  He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

 

NIV Romans 9:33
 33.  As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

 

 

 

NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
 4.  As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
 5.  you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
 6.  For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 7.  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
 8.  and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.

---

But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???

---

 

NIV Genesis 49:24-25
24.  But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
 25.  because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty,  who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.

 

NIV Numbers 20:8
 8.  "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
 4.  He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
 15.  Jeshurun  grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
 18.  You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
 30.  How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
 31.  For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.

 

NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
 2.  "There is no one holy  like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.

 

NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
 2.  He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
 3.  my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn  of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.

 

NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
 32.  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

 

NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
 47.  "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!

 

NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
 3.  The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
 4.  he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'

 

NIV Psalms 18:2
 2.  The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn  of my salvation, my stronghold.

 

NIV Psalms 18:31
 31.  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

 

NIV Psalms 18:46
 46.  The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!

 

NIV Psalms 19:14
 14.  May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

 

NIV Psalms 28:1

 

 1.  To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.

 

NIV Psalms 31:2-3
 2.  Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
 3.  Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.

 

NIV Psalms 42:9
 9.  I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"

 

NIV Psalms 62:2
 2.  He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.

 

NIV Psalms 62:6
 6.  He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.

 

NIV Psalms 62:7
 7.  My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.

 

NIV Psalms 71:3
 3.  Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.

 

NIV Psalms 78:35
 35.  They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.

 

NIV Psalms 89:26
 26.  He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.'

 

NIV Psalms 92:14-15
 14.  They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,
 15.  proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."

 

NIV Psalms 95:1
 1.  Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

 

NIV Psalms 144:1
 1.  Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

 

NIV Isaiah 17:10
 10.  You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.

 

NIV Isaiah 26:4
 4.  Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.

 

NIV Isaiah 30:29
29.  And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.

 

NIV Isaiah 44:8
 8.  Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." 

 

NIV Habakkuk 1:12
 12.  O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

---

.....No other rock.............

 

And now you know the Biblical position!

[BriarBey]

It will become more and more obvious to you, tear up all you have been taught and PRAY for TRUTH!! KNOW your history and listen to what the spirit of the Lord is saying.
I know its hard!! I used to be an ordained minister, no one knows more than I how hard it is to let go of what we think is right. He will teach you if you truly, truly want the TRUTH and nothing else.

"There is a way that SEEMS right unto man, but leads to destruction."

I have no agenda....I'm not saying follow me...I'm not passing a collection plate....I desire to please no person.
I'm not defending a denominational doctrine nor a belief....I am WARNING. DIG, SEARCH...listen, just you and HIM. If a person doesn't have the faith to think the Lord can lead them....what kind of faith is it to think a man can?

[Elsie]

I had a Jehovah Witness tell me that he was one of the 144,000.

Well...

...he must have been a REALLY old JW, for that number of members was been reached LONG ago, and now new inductees are told that THEY get to stay on a rebuilt Earth; NOT in Heaven!

Too bad, I guess.

---

(their leadership must have MISSED this verse!)

Revelation 7:9

After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

[Theo]

A well-reasoned and supported argument....