Posted on 05/21/2006 4:51:33 AM PDT by FerdieMurphy
This weekend is truly historical. Iraq established a Unity government and the US Senate gave us a Unity language. Three cheers for Unity!!!
They did??? It passed??
I haven't seen anything on that, but our news sources can be sketchy sometimes. We get a LOT more of the British news than American.
Is there a link or somewhere I can go to read up on this?
And in fairness you can say the same thing about parts of this country.
Terrific post at #51
Does anyone catch the irony that Mr Jenkins is from precisely the same nation that gave us the present-day Iraq?
Even more curious is your postings.
I suggest, for a final time, that it is you, Johnnie, who is either a DemocRAT plant on this website or is one eligible for a complete frontal lobotomy, a straight-jacket and a rubber room.
You may even be a foreign shill incapable of using proper English grammar.
Good post, bump
This "plan" is the nonseical wishful thinking of self proclaimed "policy wonks" who would rather just wish the problems of the world away, until the next 9-11 style attack comes around, because that is emotionally and intellectually easier for them to cope with. This idea is utter ignorant NONSENSE. It has absolutely NO factual or intellectual credibility. It positivly the stupidest possible "solution". It would result in perpetual instability in the region and allow the Terrorists to claim "Victory" thus aiding recruitment for the next round of 9-11s as well as allow them to rebuilt the training and base camp infrastructure destroyed in Afghanistan. It is pure and utter lunacy.
Fredie, Glad you have opinions and feelings. Please stop confusing what you feel with FACTS.
For the Neo-isolationists, HERE is what we are up to in Iraq.
Counter Insurgency is a strange bastard style of war. It is not total war but it is also more then the Leftist" Police matter". The other thing most old Cast Iron Conservatives forget is the political aspect. Iraq was doable. We had the political consensus to do it. So since we needed a kill zone we could suck the terrorists into and we needed to get the American people to support the cost, there was no other choice BUT Iraq.
Want to really blow the Leftists minds? Tell them this. Even if Al Gore won in 2000 and 9-11 happened the USA would STILL be doing the same thing now in Iraq. Iraq was doable militarily and politically. There was no other place for the US to go. Iraq is basically the same deal as the invasions of Italy was in 1943
Here in a nutshell, is the MILTIARY reason for Iraq. The War on Terrorism is different sort of war. In the war on Terrorism, we have a hidden foe, spread out across a geographically diverse area, with covert sources of supply. Since we cannot go everywhere they hide out, in fact often cannot even locate them until the engage us, we need to draw them out of hiding into a kill zone. Iraq is that kill zone. That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy. We draw the terrorists out of their world wide hiding places onto a battlefield they have to fight on for political reasons (The "Holy" soil of the Arabian peninsula) where they have to pit their weakest ability (Conventional Military combat power) against our greatest strength (ability to call down unbelievable amounts of firepower) where they will primarily have to fight other forces (the Iraqi Security forces) in a battlefield that is hostile to guerrilla warfare. (Iraqi-mostly open terrain as opposed to guerrilla friendly areas like the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of SE Asia).
There are other reasons to do Iraq but that is the MILITARY reason we are in Iraq. We have taken, an maintain the initiative from the Terrorists. They are playing OUR game on ground of OUR choosing.
Problem is Counter Insurgency is SLOW and painful. Often a case of 3 steps forward, two steps back. I often worry that the American people have neither the maturity, nor the intellect" to understand. It's so much easier to spew made for TV slogans like "No Blood for Oil" or "We support the Troops, bring them home" then to actually THINK. Problem is these people have NO desire to co-exist with us. They see all this PC posturing by the Hysteric Left as a sign that we are weak. Since they want us dead, weakness encourages them. They think their "god" will bless them for killing Westerners.
So we can covert to Islam, die or kill them. Iraq is about killing enough of them to make the rest realize we are serious. See in the Arab world the USA is considered a big wimp. We have run away so many times. Lebanon, the Kurds, the Iraqis in 1991, the Iranians, Somalia, Clinton all thru the 1990s etc etc etc. The Jihadists think we will run again. In fact they are counting on it. That way they can run around screaming "We beat the American just like the Russians, come join us in Jihad" and recruit the next round of "holy warriors". Iraq is also a show place where we show the Muslim world that there are a lines they cannot cross. On 9-11 they crossed that line and we can, and will, destroy them for it.
Most of us actively involved in Conservative politics have never heard of this butt clown.
Why does this read just like every Democrat Seminar Caller calling into a Talk Radio show.
Kind of reminds us of Jan 2005, when you all ran screaming around Free Republic screeching how a nuke had been smuggled across the border. Turned out to be just another lie.
IN case the fool missed it,
If you think I am going to waste my time on a Moveon.org mouthpiece who is only here to pretend to be a "Betrayed Conservative" and scream as much bile and emotional hysteria as possible in the vain hope it will "Fracture the Conservatives and help Democrats win in November" you are only fooling yourself.
Your Socialists have so wrecked your economy, there are no jobs. You really do not have anything better to do.
You know trolling around looking for a fight is rather childish. If you have nothing better to do with your time, I suggest you get a job.
Utter complete and total nonsense. Please stop mindlessly repeating what that Leftist nut pretend to be a Conservative Mike Savage tells you to think.
You live in a fantasy land.
Most of the posters on this thread actually know what they are talking about instead of merely regurgitating what a ignorant Radio Jock tells them to think.
Excuse me, are you trying to compensate for having the world's smallest penis?
Does your "male friend" know you are using his computer for this? Gee I mean I know your kind are all pissed because you cannot get married but this is utterly overreacting.>Don't sing it fool, bring it. Most of us are dying for an excuse to take off the gloves on you treasonous scum.
Say Hillary, Why don't you "Take aim" at Balancing the Budget or something more properly your duty as a US Senator instead of being a grandstanding PR fool?
Interesting. Now we have drive by Whiners on this thread.
This is only a small sampling of what this arrogant irritant has posted in the past 48 hours. Check it out. There are pages and pages of irrational rhetoric.
Thanks.
Because it was so good I will reply and say that I feel that trying to build a modern nation was a long shot gamble. It may pay off as I was saying it looks better then I thought. It would certainly be better of if we could.
Keep in mind, though, that it does not have to be perfect. It just needs to be good enough.
The Ottoman Empire was a mess until Mustafa Kemal Ataturk turned it into a secular and relatively modern state that has been battling Islamist nut cases since the 1920's.
Nasser's Egypt was a highly radical nation but Egypt is now very well behaved.
But, when you consider the danger of being dragged into an unpopular war or more likely what is perceived as a war. It could be extremely dangerous. We have given the left a club to beat us over the head with.
And there are two issues right there.
Again, back to strategic consideration. Because the Persian Gulf holds the oil valves to Western Civilization it is a national vital interest of the highest magnitude. The surrender of the Persian Gulf region to fanatics is simply not a viable option no matter what the cost. We either succeed in Iraq or we go back to trying to keep the lid on the region from Saudi bases but, one way or the other, we cannot leave.
The second issue is that, in my opinion, the greatest weakness that Bush has is his failure to be a good communicator that rallies the Home Front.
Successful war leaders need to have proper strategic vision, military competence (or at least know when to let Generals do their jobs without amateur meddling), tenacity and be inspirational to the warring nation.
Napoleon had great military competence, tenacity and was highly inspirational but failed by making idiotic strategic choices.
Hitler had great tenacity and was highly inspirational but failed by making the same idiotic strategic choice that Napoleon made and compounding it by declaring war on the U.S. after Pearl Harbor and by micro-managing his Generals.
Lincoln was militarily mediocre (MacClellan, Hooker, Pope, Burnsides) but made up for it by his tenacity, clear strategic goals and his inspirational nature.
Jimmy Carter was a total failure in all four departments.
Bill Clinton failed in tenacity and in strategic vision. But, we must admit, Clinton was a Great Communicator or, if you prefer, a Great Bullshitter which can be just as inspirational.
Bush has clear strategic goals, allows his Generals to do their job and has great tenacity. However, he fails in being a Great Communicator or even being a Adequate Communicator whether the subject is explaining the strategic imperatives of Iraq or even the Democrat failures of Hurricane Katrina to the American people.
As a result, he has allowed the liberal news media and the Democrats to brand the word "FAILURE" right on his forehead without a fight.
By contrast, Bill Clinton had his "War Room" that agrressively attacked any negative story within one news cycle.
Bush's flaw is compounded by the fact that the liberal news media in 21st Century America is almost as dedicated to undermining the war morale of the American Home Front as was Goebbels' Ministry of Propaganda.
I sincerely hope that it works out still. however. But, I think one lesson before we take on something like this again is that we really have to do something about the stinking lieing MSM.
In Iraq and in any future U.S. war under a Republican President, it must be assumed that the liberal news media will act as a force multiplier for our enemies by actively and aggressively trying to undermine the morale of the American Home Front.
That needs to be taken into consideration just as seriously as any other aspect of war planning.
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