The fantasy is over, we must partition Iraq and get out now (a view from the thames)

The Sunday Times (London) ^ | 5/21/2006 | Simon Jenkins

[Tribune7]

This weekend another Iraqi government, the third in three years,

It's in accordance with a plan known well in advance. It's not a sign of turmoil but a sign of progress.

[Tribune7]

This place is a failed state. There is no rule of law. Murder is unpunished.

Sounds like parts of the U.K.

[bilhosty]

"Try this: Without our "nation building" Iraq would now be annexed to Iran."

Try this, one way to get out of Iraq with out looking weak is to go through Iran.

[Allegra]

(the people are backwards).

They really aren't so much backwards. They've just been isolated off of the global market for a long time during the sanctions. They're getting pretty good at picking up current global trade practices now. When I first came here, they were doing things in such an old-fashioned, somewhat unprofessional manner, but they have been enthusiastic learners.

I was also surprised to see the level of education among many of the Iraqis. Like any society, they have their class system, but there are some very bright educated people here and those types are not a rarity.

[DoctorMichael]

The endgame of yet another western intervention will be yet another partition.

What about the beginning game? (ie. the cobbling together of an artificial country by the European Powers at the time?)

[finnigan2]

Simon Jenkins, advancing his solution of abandoning Iraq so it can be turned into another Cambodian killing field so that Jenkins can then write articles blaming it all on Bush.
The Vietnam war still looms large in the thoughts and minds of leftists like Jenkins. They have not had an original idea since 1970. It's all cut and run. After all, they reason, it worked well in Cambodia so why won't it work just as well in Iraq?
Jenkins is just another elitist fool.

[Army MP Retired]

Hmmm... I humbly disagree that the Iraqi people are backwards. They live their lives they way they have always done it - up until now, they've known no other way. Who ever has the most guns and followers gets to be in charge. Everyone else acquiesces and tries to keep to themselves. They are actually very humble, respectful and reverent people their daily lives are centered on their religion. The average citizen would no sooner hurt someone than watch a porno movie. Now that they have tasted capitalism, however - there will be no turning back. There in lies the fear of the radical Islamists. If capitalism thrives in the cradle of humanity - it will surely spread. The Islam fundamentalists believe that to be the root of all evil, since their lives will then be centered on making money opposed to their religion. So, this is way bigger than building a nation. The question is; can their be democracy without capitalism?

[Glenn]

Just what we really need here -- another opinion.

This was my opinion back before this war started. It is inevitable that civil war occur without a dictator, benevolent or otherwise, to hold them together by bribe and fear. It is obvious to me that this will be another of those modern wars where there is no surrender and, thus, no finality.

[RedRover]

There is no civil war in Iraq.

[Allegra]

It is inevitable that civil war occur without a dictator, benevolent or otherwise, to hold them together by bribe and fear. It is obvious to me that this will be another of those modern wars where there is no surrender and, thus, no finality.

It sure doesn't look like that from where I sit.

And despite the media calling for it every chanve they get, there is no sign of civil war here.

[Glenn]

There is no civil war in Iraq.

Did I say there was?

[USMMA_83]

That's the English answer to everything...partition...look at what these goof-ball did to india...no thanks!

[usmcobra]

The first one we made, the second one the Iraqis made and the third one the Iraqi people voted for.

and faster then Germany and Japan formed new governments too.

[Army MP Retired]

Yeah - but it worked for the Israeli / Palestinian issue... no, wait - never mind.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Articles like this really bug. The liberal arrogant condescension that somehow these "benighted" peoples are only fit to live under a despot is disgusting. For liberals in long established democracies or republics, not of their making (although they are trying to diamantle them)to sneer at attempts to build a government as some sort of cutesy dress-up game is disgusting.

Look at our current congress, how well do you think they would do if they had to start from scratch, write a constitution and establish a government? If that doesn't scare you...

[Allegra]

This elitist writer shows his ignorance right off the bat. He bemoans this being the third government in three years, but that's all according to plan. They're pretty much on a schedule that was laid out around the time the coalition turned the country back over to the Iraqis in mid '04.

The media wants so badly for this whole thing to fail, but it's just not showing any signs of doing so. I'm sure this is very frustrating for the poor little Marxists.

[MNJohnnie]

Absolute and total insanity without even a basic clue about ground truth in Iraq. This would be the stupidest of all possible moves. It would eliminate any support for the Coalition and drive Iraqs to join the Terrorists. It would be doing exactly what the Terrorists want us to do. Basically it would legitimate every accusation from the Terrorists about Western Imperialism and "the New Crusades". Only a complete clueless fool could think this bit of insanity was a good idea.

[nuconvert]

"we must partition Iraq and get out now"

Excuse me, Simon. But who are you? The Iraqis will decide if they want to partition their country.

[Allegra]

The whole article is riddled with fiction. I daresay that this guy is even more bold and blatant in his outright lies than is CNN.

And that's going some.

[MNJohnnie]

"Glenn (Annoy a BushBot...Think for yourself.) "

Take you own advice. Instead of mindlessly regurgitating what your favorite clueless Radio Host Mike Savage tells you to think about Iraq, try actually finding out even one basic fact about Iraq. Your post was so far removed from reality one has to wonder why you wasted our time with it. You clearly know absolutely NOTHING about Iraq and should refrain from posting on the topic. In fact, you love for thugs and bully boys seems to indicate you have a complete ignorance of History. Eventually your thug get kicked out and you support comes back to bite you on the butt. That is what happened in Iran. We have been paying the price for this utterly stupid "Stablity over progress" thinking for almost 30 years now