Posted on 11/16/2006 5:33:58 AM PST by Mr. Brightside
WASHINGTON -- Like many fellow Democratic politicians, Sen. Barack Obama is no stranger to the pulpit.
But in December, Obama will go where few progressive Democrats usually venture--to a large, conservative evangelical church that boasts a Sunday attendance of more than 20,000 people.
Even more unusual is that he'll attend at the invitation of megachurch Pastor Rick Warren, evangelical icon and author of the popular Christian book "The Purpose-Driven Life."
Aides to Obama say he will appear at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif., on Dec. 1, World AIDS Day.
"Sen. Obama has a deep respect for Mr. Warren's commitment to fighting AIDS and poverty," said Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor.
While he was working on his latest book, "The Audacity of Hope," Obama asked Warren to help by reading one of his draft chapters. Warren issued the invitation to Obama to speak at the church next month.
The messages that Friday will focus on AIDS and HIV, a key area of ministry for Saddleback Church. While many conservative Christians have shied away from AIDS because of their discomfort with its connections to premarital sex and homosexuality, Warren and his wife, church co-founder Kay Warren, have been vocal advocates for patients living with the disease.
Shortly before the release of his latest book, Obama issued a call to progressives to shed bias against religious people and to recognize "overlapping values."
(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...
How so?
Wow, shockingly frank from the Trib.
Go to the Kowloon City Baptist Church in Hong Kong (and indeed most churches in Asia), and you will see the type of Christians I described. It is a saddening sight over there.
Has no one ever provided you the specifics related to:
- Warren's teaching Synagogue 3000 how to increase their numbers. Why would a "pastor" want to increase the numbers of people being lead astray and taught falsely? How could a "pastor" ever leave Christ out of His teaching in front of ones that obviously don't know Him?
- Warren's association with Cho, and Cho's Fourth Dimension, even though it has been known, a long time, that Cho left historical orthodoxy for occultic practices?
- Warren's propensity to proof-text and twist/distort Scripture (take a look at the PDL and the use of the Message paraphrase and John 4)?
- Warren's PDC direction to finding the key to people's hearts and to shape the Gospel according to their felt needs in order to reach them?
- His lack of Gospel witness on TV?
- His association with, and promotion of, known false teachers (Brennan Manning, Henri Nouwen, Thomas Merton, Brian Mclaren, and etc.)?
- His disdain for fundamentalism?
- etc., etc. and etc.
When Adrian Rogers was pastor at the 30,000 member church in Memphis, Tenn. it was totally submitted to the Word of God.
And Internet scuttlebutt is that after Adrian's death his church is going "purpose driven".
I'm not interested in guilt by association. I'm not interested in anything other than direct quotes from Warren, his book or his statement of faith. If you respond with specifics you'll be the first.
Again with the Warren "statement of faith" argument. Have you ever heard the expression "actions speak louder than words?" How about, "talk is cheap?" Or maybe, "don't listen to what people say, watch what they do?" Perhaps, "your actions speak so loudly I can't hear what you are saying?"
All apply to the wolf in sheep's clothing Warren. His actions, comments, and other writings constantly belie Saddleback's statement of faith that you always quote. Why can't you see that the man is a complete fraud?
And do you agree with the biblical position of Christ's death on the cross as penal substitutionary atonement (He paid the price for our sins)?
Does the emergent church that you know of agree with it?
All emergent-types that I have read and encountered promote re-defining all historical biblical doctrines, including: salvation, sin, atonement, repentance, holiness, separation, and etc (Mclaren calls sin and the cross false adverstising for God).
There is a difference between tares and false teachers...We aren't to be "friendly" with the false teachers or make accomodations for them.
What are the legitimate concerns of the emergent folks?
And how are you friendly with them?
Does the emergent church that you are familiar with promote contemplative prayer and other Catholic, mystical practices?
I find this incredible. Once again you have not provided anything specific. I'm reminded of Stephen in front of the Sanhedrin...
Specifics have been posted here repeatedly, and you repeatedly ignore them.
Google is still your friend. You are perfectly capable of finding all the specifics that you seek on the Internet.
bttt
I've seen a lot of posts with general statements, nothing else. If you're right then you should be able to find the posts without a problem.
Google is still your friend. You are perfectly capable of finding all the specifics that you seek on the Internet.
That's wonderful. Smear somebody, don't provide anything specific and tell people to go look for themselves.
I asked you for specifics on this thread and I never got specifics. At this time, post 60 is still unanswered. While the post wasn't directed to you, it once again shows no specifics have been provided.
You have been answered, repeatedly. Just because you constantly claim you have not been answered does not make it so. I have no doubt you will claim you haven't been answered yet again, so this back and forth is futile. I will move along.
Since you can't support your statements perhaps you should ask the moderator to have them removed. That's what somebody with character would do.
As I said to you on another thread here:
You don't know Warren's heart and you don't know the hearts of those who claim to have come to faith in Christ through Warren's ministry, but you're sure something is wrong, somewhere. It seems to me you should heed Paul's words referenced above.Some of the words Paul listed were "to slander no one." Ahem...
The dust has been shaken ... bye bye.
He flipped out a long time ago. It's just more people are starting to finally see it.
Not everyone, as I'm sure you have noted. There is none so blind as a Laodicean Lemming who will not see.
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