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Researchers May Remake Neanderthal DNA
Associated Press ^ | 6-25-07 | RANDOLPH E. SCHMID

Posted on 06/25/2007 8:51:04 PM PDT by anymouse

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"Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should."

1 posted on 06/25/2007 8:51:05 PM PDT by anymouse
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To: anymouse; SunkenCiv
GGG Ping

"But it is "sample intensive," he said, and he isn't sure enough DNA is available to complete the work. "

That's my thoughts too...there's just not enough undamaged dna.

2 posted on 06/25/2007 8:58:22 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
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To: anymouse
The Neanderthal Theory
3 posted on 06/25/2007 8:59:34 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
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To: anymouse

I’m expecting somebody holding my “donor card” to knock on my door any day now, ready to call the chit. I could save them a lot of lab time by just giving them a sample.


4 posted on 06/25/2007 9:00:22 PM PDT by Uriah_lost ("build bridges where you can - but draw lines where you must." -Fred D Thompson)
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To: anymouse

And we can display them! We call it, oh, I don’t know, Quaternary Park, maybe...


5 posted on 06/25/2007 9:02:00 PM PDT by decal (Sign over DNC headquarters: Please Check Common Sense And Morals At The Door)
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To: anymouse

Unless they decide to raise him in a cave with no language I would suspect that the “neanderthal” will turn into an unrecognizable part of society, except for maybe the extra large forehead, smaller stature, etc. that some other “moderns” have. I wonder if his vocal chords are developed enough to achieve proper speaking or would he just be normal, etc.

I like Man vs. Wild and Survivorman, I would like to see how he would fare, but that would be cruel, denying him an ipod and all that.


6 posted on 06/25/2007 9:07:03 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: anymouse

And the point of doing this would be?


7 posted on 06/25/2007 9:08:33 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: anymouse
So, if they DO obtain enough DNA and successfully reconstruct Neanderthal DNA...how will it be reconciled by creationists?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious. I assume it's already been discussed...and there's probably an answer that fits the dogma, I just don't know what it is.

8 posted on 06/25/2007 9:10:56 PM PDT by Mariner
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To: metmom

To hunt mammoths and cave bears.


9 posted on 06/25/2007 9:11:59 PM PDT by razorback-bert (Posted by Time's Man of the Year)
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To: metmom
Why, to obtain further tax-funded grants for more pointless and possibly dangerous research, of course.

Where've ya been for the last couple of decades, young lady?

10 posted on 06/25/2007 9:22:09 PM PDT by SAJ
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To: Mariner
So, if they DO obtain enough DNA and successfully reconstruct Neanderthal DNA...how will it be reconciled by creationists?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious. I assume it's already been discussed...and there's probably an answer that fits the dogma, I just don't know what it is.

I haven't seen it addressed probably for the simple reason that this is the first I've seen it mentioned, that there was an effort to reconstruct the DNA. What would you consider that needs to be reconciled? Reconciled with what?

Personally, I think it's foolish, no matter what the creature. Since there's no way anyone can possibly KNOW for sure what the complete DNA from any fossil is, there's no way anyone can be sure that what they're getting is genuine. There's no knowing what damage might be done to the DNA in the process and what the consequences of THAT might be.

If the Neanderthal is a failed species, what's the point of trying to bring it back? What do they plan on doing with it?

11 posted on 06/25/2007 9:24:12 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: SAJ
Where've ya been for the last couple of decades, young lady?

Not milking the government cow doing research, obviously.

12 posted on 06/25/2007 9:25:21 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Mariner
When i was a kid i once remember being told by someone that dinosaur bones were 'planted by the devil' to discredit Christians. 15 or so years later there are Creation museums that state Adam lived and walked with dinosaurs, and for the most part dinosaurs are now accepted by most creationists (just that they lived with humans and didn't die out ages ago). This makes me believe that if Neanderthal DNA was remade then what would happen would be a brief period of statements that the DNA is false or faked, then a period of silence over the matter, and before long Neanderthal man would start appearing in creationist museums ....but as some sort of extinct ape. Or maybe it would be claimed that it was Niphilm (or similar). Or the type of people who lived before Noah.

Who knows? However i am sure a convenient answer would sooner or later be whittled out.

13 posted on 06/25/2007 9:29:00 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: anymouse

It took but the first post for the GEICO caveman to show up. Good work!!


14 posted on 06/25/2007 9:29:44 PM PDT by Captainpaintball
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
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Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

15 posted on 06/25/2007 9:32:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 23, 2007.)
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To: word_warrior_bob

I have a sneaking suspicion that there’s not much difference between us and them. I think they are just a unique combination of physical traits that are not so common today. I’d like to see a search of existing humans for neandertal like traits. THen using composite photography, combine all the best ones into one photograph. I bet you could “make” a neandertal out of living people in this manner.


16 posted on 06/25/2007 9:35:19 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]

17 posted on 06/25/2007 9:35:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 23, 2007.)
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To: anymouse

Redheads ‘are neanderthal’ [Free Republic]
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3adc5573604d.htm

London - Red hair may be the genetic legacy of Neanderthals...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1322006/posts


18 posted on 06/25/2007 9:37:56 PM PDT by familyop (Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: spetznaz
When i was a kid i once remember being told by someone that dinosaur bones were 'planted by the devil' to discredit Christians.

not sure why .....

Job 3:8 May those who curse days curse that day, those who are ready to rouse Leviathan.

Job 41:1 "Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope?

Psalm 74:14 It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan and gave him as food to the creatures of the desert.

Psalm 104:26 There the ships go to and fro, and the leviathan, which you formed to frolic there.

Isaiah 27:1 [ Deliverance of Israel ] In that day, the LORD will punish with his sword, his fierce, great and powerful sword, Leviathan the gliding serpent, Leviathan the coiling serpent; he will slay the monster of the sea

yep - prolly just one of them big squids (sarc)

Then theres the question of the age of creation -was it six literal - or six periods ?.......my money is on epochs

19 posted on 06/25/2007 9:40:24 PM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: anymouse
"Researchers May Remake Neanderthal DNA"

But I don't need no stinkin' competition.
20 posted on 06/25/2007 9:41:00 PM PDT by familyop (Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: mamelukesabre
I have a sneaking suspicion that there’s not much difference between us and them. I think they are just a unique combination of physical traits that are not so common today. I’d like to see a search of existing humans for neandertal like traits. THen using composite photography, combine all the best ones into one photograph. I bet you could “make” a neandertal out of living people in this manner.

Composite photography when we have DNA?????

You have got to be kidding!

Have you ever studied Neanderthals, or evolution? Or forensics?

DNA is pretty good evidence, while things like you suggest are so subjective they are pretty much useless last resorts.

21 posted on 06/25/2007 10:14:55 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Revelation 911
Agreed. Also agree when it comes to the six day vs six epochs thing. Personally I believe six epochs, and for three main reasons. One is that it would fit perfectly with evolution, and secondly because the whole 'Earth was created 6K years ago' stemmed from Archbishop's Ushers calculations (which were based on geneology chronology using the lifetimes of people in the Bible). He even 'managed' to come up with the exact date - October 26, 4004 BC! Note that this was during the same time there were debates about the genders of angels, how many angels could stand on the head of a pin (seriously), and other questions that had no real substance.

My biggest reason however is the the third one ....whether the Earth was created 6,000 years ago (as some say), or 10,000 years ago (as some Young Earth Creationists pushed back the 6K date when it didn't match with some discoveries that were older than 6K yrs), or eons ago (my personal belief) doesn't matter much. As a Christian what i adhere to is a personal belief in Christ and relationship with him. To me that is what matters ....not whether Adam walked with T-rex (which is just plain dumb .....particularly when i heard that one of the Creationist museums claimed that the reason T-rex had sharp teeth in a perfect world was so that it could eat fruit better!!!! Or the fact that some years back there was an expedition by some Young Earthers to Lake Tele in the Congo to investigate claims of some sort of Loch Ness type lake monster - read 'dinosaur' - that lived there ....in a bid to show that if 'dinosaurs' still exist today then science is wrong on other things too). To me all that is nonsense ....here are far more important things.

Oh, and they never did get any real evidence of that Lake Tele monster. Guess Loch Ness in Scotland is always open for 'research.'

22 posted on 06/25/2007 10:23:12 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: metmom

;^)


23 posted on 06/25/2007 10:34:15 PM PDT by SAJ
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To: Coyoteman

THe photo idea is just a starting point. Naturally I’d like to see the same thing attempted with DNA fragments of current living humans.


24 posted on 06/25/2007 10:53:08 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: blam

I just hope the cave bear doesn’t eat the cave man.


25 posted on 06/25/2007 11:37:02 PM PDT by Defiant (W '04...........Cheney '07, Thompson/Hunter '08.)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: metmom; Mariner; SAJ

I dont think they intend to make a neanderthal. They just want to sequence its DNA (and that of mammoth et al). This is a lab job with lots of pipettes and mini test tubes and gel electrophoresis. The aim is to determine relationships between species.

I think its going to be very difficult to do. DNA of hominid species is very, very similar anyway - it’s going to be hard, especially with samples that may be damaged, to get definite genetic markers.


27 posted on 06/26/2007 1:32:09 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: HillaryChavez

“Neanderthal’s did not breed with cromagnon man. Our DNA doesnt match Neanderthal’s DNA. Chimps do not breed with monkeys, or gorilla’s. So why would Neanderthal’s breed with Cromagnon man?”

??

Well, no-one knows if Neanderthal man was a separate species or just a sub race, and no-one knows how closely related our DNA and theirs is. That’s sort of what they are trying to find out here...


28 posted on 06/26/2007 1:37:15 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: HillaryChavez
Neanderthal’s did not breed with cromagnon man. Our DNA doesnt match Neanderthal’s DNA. Chimps do not breed with monkeys, or gorilla’s. So why would Neanderthal’s breed with Cromagnon man?

Horses can breed with donkeys -- you end up with an infertile mule. Perhaps they could breed, but with infertile offspring.

29 posted on 06/26/2007 1:58:24 AM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Salamander

Are We Not Men???

(we are devo)

Are We Not Men!?!

(dee-ee-vee-oh)


30 posted on 06/26/2007 2:02:31 AM PDT by shibumi (".....panta en pasin....." - Origen)
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To: shibumi

Ungh!
Me barbarian!


31 posted on 06/26/2007 2:04:11 AM PDT by Salamander (And don't forget my Dog; fixed and consequent.......)
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To: Mariner

I suppose they would need to create the DNA before they would feel a need to reconcile anything, if I understood what you were asking. I am not sure the reconstruction is an actual one and perhaps it will be in the form of a computer model?


32 posted on 06/26/2007 3:43:22 AM PDT by WildcatClan (Duncan Hunter '08 'Doing the jobs Americans aren't willing to do.')
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To: anymouse

I really don’t know why they feel they need to go to all this trouble. Mr. Fairview already exists; they could just study him. I promise you, there’s very little difference between Mr. Fairview and other Neanderthals except frequency of showers.


33 posted on 06/26/2007 5:40:08 AM PDT by Fairview ( Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.)
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To: anymouse

This is excellent news! Since some scientists seem hellbent on recreating dinosaurs from DNA, it’s only appropriate that we also have cavemen around who know how to deal with them.

BACK TO THE FUTURE! sez I


34 posted on 06/26/2007 6:44:33 AM PDT by wildbill
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To: anymouse

I was thinking more on the line of the images I remember of Barbara Bach in a fur bikini. Now that was a cave person.


35 posted on 06/26/2007 6:55:09 AM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: Coyoteman
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge

Likewise, scientific belief does not constitute a religion, or faith, unto itself

36 posted on 06/26/2007 7:04:21 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: anymouse
Why sequence it? Get a donor sample.

John Kerry, paging Senator John Kerry ...

37 posted on 06/26/2007 7:06:34 AM PDT by 4CJ (Annoy a liberal, honour Christians and our gallant Confederate dead)
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To: Revelation 911

Rabbi Isaac of Acco remarkably calculated the universe’s age as 15 billion years old, in the 13th century. It’s only (some) Christians who seem to have a problem with an old universe/old earth.


38 posted on 06/26/2007 7:38:58 AM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: GraniteStateConservative

doesnt literalism drive you nuts


39 posted on 06/26/2007 8:42:11 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: blam
Thanks for posing the Neanderthal Theory, blam. I hadn’t read that before, and it’s a fascinating theory. That’s why I’m addicted to these threads, they open to such interesting possibilities.
40 posted on 06/26/2007 10:27:09 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker
"Thanks for posing the Neanderthal Theory, blam. I hadn’t read that before, and it’s a fascinating theory. That’s why I’m addicted to these threads, they open to such interesting possibilities."

You're welcome. A few years back, I read every word on every link in that article. JimRob won't let me post it as a stand-alone article. That was the only post I ever made that got pulled...wouldn't explain why either.

41 posted on 06/26/2007 10:30:18 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
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To: blam
The only thing I can think of is the article's frank discussion of the possible differences in sexual practices between Neanderthals and homo sapiens.

BTW, the Zana story was fascinating. Why couldn't some very isolated Neanderthal groups survive to recent times?

42 posted on 06/26/2007 10:42:08 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Revelation 911

The thing I always thought was odd was that Genesis was written by Jews, but Christians don’t believe Jews when they say what it means.


43 posted on 06/26/2007 12:21:00 PM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: colorado tanker
"Why couldn't some very isolated Neanderthal groups survive to recent times?"

Looks like the 'Hobbits' on Flores survived up to about 12k years ago. I'm presently reading the book, A New Human about the Hobbits and the author says these guys are more ancient than Homo-Erectus or Neanderthals. The next chapter in the book is titled: Out Of Asia. Could get interesting.

BTW, human artifacts on Flores date to 840,000 years ago.

44 posted on 06/26/2007 1:12:06 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
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To: anymouse
What, 44 posts and none of them are a photo of Helen Thomas?
45 posted on 06/26/2007 1:14:59 PM PDT by Pilsner
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To: blam
BTW, human artifacts on Flores date to 840,000 years ago.

Sure raises some interesting questions!

46 posted on 06/26/2007 1:30:58 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: metmom

“And the point of doing this would be?”

To annoy creationists?


47 posted on 06/26/2007 2:17:46 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: blam

840,000 or 84,000?

“Homo Floresiensis (Flores Man) who lived 93000 B.C. to 10000 B.C. is discovered “


48 posted on 06/26/2007 2:29:10 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: GraniteStateConservative
The thing I always thought was odd was that Genesis was written by Jews, but Christians don’t believe Jews when they say what it means.

You mean it doesnt deal with Gods omnipotence and Creation, Retribution theology, Original sin and the lineage of Noah ?

hey - the NT was written by Jews - and they still don't beleieve it

49 posted on 06/27/2007 6:13:02 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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50 posted on 12/29/2008 10:04:38 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, December 6, 2008 !!!)
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